RAPE
Aug 9th, 2009 by pedestrian
When I posted the translation of “In Kahrizak, we had to Lick the water”, Aria wrote: “I’m surprised by his claim that there were “systematic” raping performed on the young guys; that just doesn’t fly with me.”
I wrote back: “the word he uses is “tajavoz” which as far as I know, translates to rape. But it could mean any form of molestation or abuse maybe?”
Now I think there has been more light shed on this issue. Karoubi wrote Rafsanjani a letter ten days ago, a letter which he only made public today, in which he talks about the systematic rape of “girls and boys” in prison.
I am wondering: are the opposition camps so horrendously disorganized? Why didn’t Rafsanjani respond? Are they just saying that so they can publish the letter?
Mehdi Karoubi has asked Hashemi Rafsanjani to form a committee to investigate rumors and allegations regarding serious mistreatment of detainees.
Hossein Karoubi, his son, said : “My father wrote this letter for Mr Hashemi Rafsanjani and sent it to him privately. He insisted that Mr Hashemi Rafsanjani reply to the letter and take appropriate action. Unfortunately Mr. Hashemi Rafsanjani did not reply to the letter. My father stressed that if he does not receive a response or see appropriate measures taken within ten days, he will make the letter public.”
Hossein Karoubi continued: “The letter is based on Mr. Karoubi’s concerns. He is also worried about what foreign groups may say about the treatment of the detainees. These days, a great number of people who have been released have come to see my father. They have retold of the conduct and behavior of the officers and officials while they were in custody. They have described what they have seen or heard in detail. Evidently the behavior and action of some personnel, particularly toward women and girls, does not measure up to the reputation of Islamic Republic or any other regime for that matter.”
[I haven't translated the first part of the letter which mostly describes his shock and bewidlerment upon hearing this news from those who hold "very high positions" in the IRI, how he couldn't eat, sleep, etc, etc.]
Some of the detainees have reported that certain individuals have so severely raped some of the girls in custody that the attacks have caused excruciating damage and injury to their reproductive organs. At the same time, they report that others have raped the young boys so violently that upon their release, they have had to endure great physical and mental pain and have been lying in a corner of their homes since.
Considering the importance of this matter, it is expected that this case will be investigated by a neutral, transparent body appointed by the head of the Expediency Council [Rafsanjani]. So that this will remain a lesson for future generations, and will not serve as an opportunity for hooligans to humiliate the revolution, the Imam and the ruling system and to tarnish the thousand year contribution of the clerics. As a last point I note that two copies of this letter have been printed. One has been signed and sealed and sent to you and the other is with me.
Best Regards,
Mehdi Karoubi
July 31st, 2009
Dear Pedestrian
Apart from the already mentioned statement [statement I] I posted the following two statements which were also left undeleted by Press TV for at least one whole day during the weekend:
[statement II]
There had always been a favourable picture in Germany of Iran due to its millennium-old high culture. Western academic studies emphasize the deep influence of Persia on Greco-Roman and Christian culture, philosophy and religion. Will a nation with that past and potential be able to accept that image of violent hatred against differing opinions and doubts, of cruel destruction of young people’s lives in prisons, of juridical impunity of the responsible organs – in the long run?
[statement III]
One word on Persian tradition: 2500 years back Cyrus embraced linguistic diversity, codified the laws and observed them painstakingly. Perhaps most striking was Cyrus’s religious tolerance. So why move lightyears away from that great and exemplary tradition of Persia ?
with the hope that all my best wishes may come true for you
I remain
your German
German, I have never posted comments on Press TV. Are they published automatically and later deleted or are they moderated?
For instance, one comment I just read over there: “Where is the Army to protect the people? In 1979 Army disobeyed Shah and would not attack Iranian people, this is why mullah regime made IRGC leaders rich and powerful. So the Army is weak NOW and Sepah rules over the people.”
I was very surprised.
Dear Pedestrian
I have been watching Press TV for nearly two days – only interrupted by a break of six hours. As a foreigner I think I should and could express, what you and Naj are feeling: without having to fear any reprisals (!). Like you, I am quite taken aback by the neckbreaking bravery and courage of your compatriots in Iran. I doubt very much if any German is as brave as the Iranian people are. Rather:I am certain and know fpr sure that they aren’t. That’s the difference between a nation with the tradition of the cradle of civilization (Sumerians, Akkadians, the Achaemenid Empire and so on) and descendants of Germanic tribes who – just having climbed down from their oak trees – took the maximum of pains not to become civilized (cf. the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest). But that is another discussion. –
I think things and life should be in a condition, that doesn’t call for any heroes whatsoever! – PressTV appears at present to behave in a subtle diplomatic way and treats the statements differently: either they delete a comment immediately or they leave it there for 2 or 3 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 1 hour, 2 hours, half a day, one whole day or longer. One of the three statements of mine was even resuscitated after about 5-6 hours. They naturally don’t delete the comments that fast at night, at least last night they didn’t. There were quite animated and often – for me as someone who won’t have to suffer for the next for years from the election results achieved howsoever – interesting and really hilarating discussions going on – [I think that website of yours and Naj's are incomparably more important]. Someone particularly stupid commentator was asked by another one if he needed a physician – and so on – I – being a bloke (male) myself – enjoyed that somehow. I doubt very much if I would recommend [in other words: I wouldn't recommendit] to post there anything to an Iranian citizen, as I don’t know how sophisticated their methods of control are!!!!! So why play the hero [see above] ?
All the best
German
correction: …at least last night they didn’t…
I corrected it if that’s o.k.
LOL! I don’t watch/login to Press TV very often. So there’s a whole movie going on in there!
What is weird to me, and I think I mentioned this somewhere else, is that many of the writers/reporters for Press TV are young Iranians who were born and raised in the Western world and are now in Iran for some reason or other. They aren’t exactly Ahmadinejad’s base. So I always wonder how they can go along with everything …
Dear Pedestrian,
they seem to be wise, sage and prudent – not as “blockheaded” as many of their commentating correspondents, the latter equipped with a rather simple (or “goofy”?) mental disposition – more to be pitied than to be censured.
Thus I had even posted a statement under the heading/name “PITY FOR PRESS TV”, in which I expressed my deepest regrets that they had to read these amounts of often very odd comments [full of lethal hatred], written in a language that has no equal be it as to English syntax and semantics, be it – foremost and in particular – to their contents, presumably often an insult to [their] good taste and manners. – There are [(and must be) !!!] always some strange comments [which might be labelled by an evil character like me as "lunatic"].
In the hope not to have dumbed down the approrpriate and proper standards of human civilization, English language and Persian manners [having this time used derogatory language myself] with this my letter
I remain
German
I am not surprised at all, one should look at the history of these people who were trusted by this government right at the beginning of the revolution. Most majority of them were/are son of those unfortunate women who were working as prostitute, back in Shah’s time, no educated and legitimate person willing to take part in such an act of rape.
[Moderator: deleted]
Manocher, Most majority of them were/are son of those unfortunate women who were working as prostitute, back in Shah’s time
can you name five of members of this “majority”?
If you notice, the ones running this show have nothing to do with Rafsanjani, Khomeini, etc who were the top officials during the early days of the revolution. They too have A LOT to answer for, but they aren’t the ones raping kids in prison.
Please provide sources for your last statement or I will delete them (in 24 hours).
German, if there’s one thing I wish (after the release of the prisoners) is that in Iran, the thugs ruling the place will grasp on to the dire need for a fair minded media. The more they clamp down on the media, the more people will turn to foreign outlets.
We’ll have to wait and see, but as we say in Persian: “chesham aab nemikhonreh” (my eyes do not see water) meaning, I doubt that anything is going to happen!
Dear Pedestrian,
Your quote: +we say in Persian: “chesham aab nemikhonreh” (my eyes do not see water) meaning, I doubt that anything is going to happen!+
Things in Iran are definitely going to change – the catch is only: “in the long run”. When a nation of mass murderers like mine, Germany [and not to forget Austria] – which the Iranian nation never has been and never wil be!!- , where more or less everybody (the generation of my parents) had blood on his hand – has turned – within limits – into a more or less civilized country [in my view in two waves: a) directly and basically after the war, thanks to the occupation by the foreign forces/countries and b) subsequently to and connected with the youth movement of 1968 (whatever I think of it now that I am older) [here again in Germany only a minor part of the young people took part, usually accompanied by the hatred of the average people, without any roots in and support by the ordinary man on the street, the so-called "working class" and so on - but this kind of movement absolutely changed things in the long term, after i.e. 5-10 years].
A nation like Iran – never having committed inconceivable gruesome deeds on a widely planned and widely supported mass-scale as this nation of mass-murderes, Germany, did in its history (ca. 200 years after the Enlightenment!!!!) – with that millenia-long mental, intellectual, cultural etc. etc. – you name it – and – in any case – grand history and tradition – not to be compared with [a European country like] Germany with its historically rather tender, weak, short roots in/to civilization – will definitely prevail in its efforts to continue or take up again its cultural, intellectual, democratic, tolerant, educated, humane, tradition – in the long run!
Every reason [for Iranians] not to feel downhearted, not to feel inferior to anyone or any nation. On the contrary!
Yours
German
Dear Pedestrian,
an afterthought:
The upheaval in Iran – a “terremoto”, a huge earthquake – whose seismic waves are somehow more or less shaking the whole world. No wonder that this phase in the history of your country is not only very confusing to everyone, but concussing you to the very foundations.
In the Augustan Age, i.e. during the peaceful term of office of the Roman “princeps” Augustus, after an long phase of bloody civil wars [lasting with some short interruptions nearly 60 years] , the great and grand Roman poet Horatius, Horace, wrote the following lines, of which I would like to quote the first one and a half lines:
Quintus Horatius Flaccus
Carmina
Liber II
Carmen III
23 a.Ch.n.
AEQUÁM MEMÉNTÓ RÉBUS ÍN ÁRDUÍS
SERVÁRE MÉNTÉM, [nón secus ín bonís
ab ínsoléntí témperátám
lǽtitiá, moritúre Déllí,]
[…]
Horace
The Odes
Book II,
Ode III
“Aequam, Memento…”
REMEMBER TO KEEP YOUR EQUANAMITY, SERENITY AND COMPOSURE IN EXTREME DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES,
[as in fortunate and happy situations you should remember to keep it in the same way safe from overexcessive joy.
For you know: you – like everybody of us - will depart this life one day, my dear friend Dellius!]
[…]
Conveying the best wishes to you
remains
German
German! Thanks for the story on Augustus!
And for your reassurance! When I said “cheshmam aab nemikhoreh” I was referring to Press TV acting with more dignity and journalistic integrity anytime soon!
I agree: I don’t think we have any reason to feel inferior. Every nation has monsters. It’s just a matter of how well we can prevent them from harming us and themselves.
The reason such claims cast doubt on me was (I’m not sure if I mentioned this) because it was simply being spread by a word of mouth. First of all, “tajavoz” can also be semantically understood as an aggression or a violation. However, in the contemporary form, I have never seen a usage outside of realm of “rape” or as you put it “[sexual] molestation.” Nevertheless, it still does not answer the veracity of the such claims. And if you noticed, I used the “systematic” in quotation in hopes of bringing attention to the fact that such heinous act was not a top-to-bottom wash down order and perhaps a conduct of a few sadistic and nefarious elements in the system.
Another issue that I shared was the interviewer’s lack of inquisitive vigor when confronted with such information. He or she simply did not pursue the line other than superficially brushes it off with a structurally short-answered question as if this was yet another heart wrenching conniption that has become a corner stone of every parallel story and would not demand any further scrutiny. It baffling to me that no one actually asks these people the details of interrogation tactics employed by the regime. Were the alleged molestations confined to striking the genitalia or was it in the scope of a broom-in-the-rectum violation? At the end, the interview had been conducted very sloppy. Of course, there must be a journalistic and even moral parameters that would prevent the identity of the interviewee to be exposed but I hardly believe asking for more details would jeopardize these measures.
Moreover, the correspondence between Karroubi and Rafsanjani clearly mirrors the events occurring back in 80’s when there were rumors circulating and accusing the regime in using coerced marriage and ultimately rape for the unmarried young girls who were sentenced to the execution. There were several letters exchanged between Khomeini and Montazeri regarding such matter (widely available) where they had raised concerns about these false accusations. Ultimately, it was revealed that the Mojhedin-e Khalgh had orchestrated the unfounded rape allegations.
Now, I am not asserting that the new rumors have a foothold in the old historical context with the same old agents stoking the first but rather simply questioning the breadth and depth of such human rights violation. Were there incident that comply to such narrative of rape back in 80’s in sporadic and isolated cases? You bet it did. Has it been repeated in the recent times? Yes it has but the fact remains that it hasn’t been a “widespread” phenomenon with clear cut orders from the top.
Aria, first of all, I hope it didn’t sound like I was criticizing your comment – when the opposite, it was quite necessary and appropriate.
I translated that interview not because of its journalistic value, but because it was (to that date) the only interview found with an ex-detainee. Being anonymous, I could never be 100% sure of its authenticity in the first place, but Rooz is more trusted than most of the outlets out there, so I figured this was the closest we might get.
As for how widespread these actions may be, we certainly don’t know as you point out.
But there’s only ONE way to find out. And I think there are many people within the traditional IRI hierarchy (not the new one defined by Ahmadinejad and Co.) even in the ranks of hardliners that clearly want to see an end to this. They want the prisoners released, their stories told. As Karoubi points out in this letter, this matter needs to be investigated, in hopes that it will turn out to be false, that it doesn’t live on and become exaggerated generation after generation.
We don’t know for certain if there has been rape, or how often or how much. But we do KNOW that a healthy young boy was taken into custody and given back to his family dead, with a broken jaw and broken limbs – and that too a whole week after he died. We know quite a few of these stories and thus, rape may not even seem as nearly as bad as what we do know.
That’s the most important thing in my opinion: that this mess be CLEARD UP. Else, we can fantasize, exaggerate, build, …
And lastly, I was never a fan of Karoubi. But now that I go back and look at the letters he wrote and statements he made four, five, six years ago, he saw what was coming, he warned everyone, clearly he’s not the most eloquent man around, and I certainly can not speak of his overall political integrity in the past three decades (more so because I don’t even know enough). But he has spoken TRUE words in the past few years, so I can at least attempt to contemplate his words (not necessarily trust them) more than most right now.
Dear Pedestrian,
Of course, you are right!
German
[correction please / I don't know what's the matter with my computer or the Internet:]
You discuss here the semantics (tajavoz) and the factual background of the humiliating and degrading method of raping adolescents in Iranian prisons which might [have] destroy[ed] their future life, if they should have survived it.
It’s absolutely confusing for a European to get an even only minimal grasp of what’s happening in Iran at the time being.
To quote a very recent example [referring to the juridical investigative methods discussed by you]:
Today in the morning I posted under two PressTV-articles [”General calls for Mousavi, Khatami, Karroubi prosecution” and “Mousavi accused of helping ‘foreign spies’”] as a comment the following question:
+ Do the initials of the “Revolutionary Guards” IRGC stand for “Insane Rapist Group of Criminals”? +
Checking the two articles now at least eight hours later I must realise that they haven’t deleted this question yet.
Pedestrian,
I totally understood that you used my comment as a prelude to the new entry and I did not take it as a criticism of my or anyone else’s statements. The reason I wrote a reply here was to clarify my point of view and also raise other valid questions regarding the subject matter. No harms done.
And I too checked the original source on Rooz’ website and your translation was right on the money. As a matter of fact, the story promulgated in the interview resembles the one posted by another guy who wrote about his experience once he got out of Kahrizah detention center ( http://kahrizak.wordpress.com/2009/07/27/%D9%81%D8%AC%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B9-%D9%88-%DA%A9%D8%B4%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%86%DB%8C-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%AF%D9%88%DA%AF%D8%A7%D9%87-%DA%A9%D9%87%D8%B1%DB%8C%D8%B2%DA%A9/ ). His blog ( http://kahrizak.wordpress.com/ ) recently also warned about the authorities seeking his IP from the Wordpress company. I doubt Wordpress does business in Iran or even permitted by the US sanction to conduct such operation in Iran so hopefully they won’t contribute to yet another innocent blogger like Yahoo did to that Chinese writer. He claims he got out of the country at some point but returned later on.
Finally, I had a few of my immediate family members butchered by the regime and I have no many first hand stories that just simply cannot be conveyed via he-said she-said allegations. So I’m fully aware of these people are capable of but I view the urge to maintain a veracity of reported news as the exigency that would ultimately result in the regime change. Because, I strongly believe that the only way to topple the theocracy is to change people’s ideology, the way they think, they way they view the world around them. Therefore, in order to prevail over the people who wholeheartedly support the current government, one must resort to nothing other than truth because any slight distortion would give credence to one’s old sleight-of-mind and they would slip back to their comfortable zone of backing the regime.
You can only change people’s mind (those who don’t see why the regime is the right choice for them) when you probe at their heart with the lance of truthfulness. Any deviation would be detected as a smear and a snide to their ego and would simply create a division which would win you no “enemy.” You really do need those “enemies” (i.e. Basij or pro-government folks) to come to your side. No doubt, there is a delicate balance between exposing the atrocities and also putting yourself in the shoes of someone, who is misguided about his position, and see how such story is merely viewed by him as a direct disparagement or would it allow him to sit back and reassess the situation. Of course, it’s a Herculian task for anyone to contain his composure while being assaulted with denial and vindictiveness; it truly requires someone who rises above the fray and keeps dislodging information and ideas with accuracy and free of partisanship in hopes of creating that moment in the opposition’s head where a switch is flipped and have him won over.
But I digress.
I accidentally hit submit out of rush before proofreading. Having a flu in the midst of summer doesn’t really help either. A few corrections:
“hopefully they won’t contribute to yet another innocent blogger['s demise] like Yahoo did to that Chinese writer.”
“I have [so] many first hand stories that just simply cannot be conveyed via he-said she-said allegations.”
“So I’m fully aware of [what] these people are capable of”
Hey Aria, I hope you’re feeling better soon!
Regarding changing people’s minds, Kadivar gave a really good speech (imo) about that last week. Being a cleric, some people may not particularly like him, but I’ve found his analysis quite insightful.