The Gaza Freedom March
Oct 31st, 2009 by pedestrian
This is something I’ve wanted to post for a long time, but with the daily news coming out of Iran, I have not had that chance. I find it dangerous that many of us have become maybe a bit too self-absorbed and immersed in our own problems to notice what is going on in the rest of the world.
At the same time, I find it even more dangerous that the Iranian government has for so long done such a terrible job of presenting Palestine in the media, that a lot of people are simply SICK of the topic and anti-Palestine rhetoric is all the rage in some circles, not because they know very much about the topic, but because they are so sick of seeing the terrible coverage that they have grown reactionary.
But to open a bracket here, I may add that unlike what the Iranian government and surprisingly, the Western media claim, the topic of Israel/Palestine is not the daily discussion in most Iranian homes.
It is interesting to me that ever since the election in Iran, when I am in such circles and I approach these discussions, the dominant argument put against me is: “you saw the way the pro-Palestine leftists reacted to Iran, why should we care about Palestine?”
My only answer: what does one have to do with the other? We Iranians (and Middle Easterners I may add) should by now be used to this lack of understanding so violently thrust upon us by Westerners – whether on the left, right, center, or any other geographic coordinate for that matter. I do not mean to “change” anyone’s views on Palestine or any other issue, but there is no reason to show disrespect to a people’s struggle especially when we ourselves are immersed in one.
To these Iranian friends I can also add: we should always be weary of becoming who we claim to loathe. The Iranian media may have done a horrendous job of covering Palestine, the Iranian politicians may have been sickly hypocritical in their support of Palestine, but since when are they the measure of anything good or righteous? Because they are hypocrites should not take away our own ability to see and understand the world.
But this post wasn’t meant to be about Iran, but Palestine and the Gaza Freedom March!
Anyone who is still haunted by the harrowing images of the Gaza massacre should be motivated to do their part.
To quote Max Ajl the Gaza Freedom March is
“conceived as a massive march to leverage institutional racism–in less social-scientific terms, the fact that the Western world reacts a bit differently to white vs. brown people getting shot–into the lifting of the siege in Gaza. We do not know if it will work, or how it will work–logistics for when we are in Gaza are still being mulled over, but thousands of people and scores of organizations have endorsed the march, including Chomsky, Omar Barghouti, Alice Walker, etc. Some have probably already bought their tickets. Some will be buying them now. But behind every Westerner [or Latin American/Middle Easterner *et al*., everyone is invited] are hopefully thousands who will be watching, milling, agitating, pressuring their governments to parlay the expressly non-violent mobilization into the physical opening of Gaza to the world.”
Click here for some updates provided by Max. You should also visit his website for more regular updates.
And I am also posting some of the links he has sent out:
The International Coalition to end the illegal siege of Gaza
Palestine prepares to receive Gaza Freedom March
I would strongly suggest that you watch Ewa Jasiewicz explain the horrors of Gaza.
If you have the time, the money, the webspace, the medium … please spread the word.
Is there an equally fervent campaign to stop Hamas and Hezbollah shelling of Israeli towns? Yes, Israel used more force than necessary, but should they have stood aside when their towns were being shelled continually? if we are going to condemn atrocities, we should at least be consistence and principled and condemn both sides when they err.
Linda, “condemn” both sides? One side had 1400 of its population WIPED out including hundreds of children – in an act of brutal condemnation. How much more a severe “condemnation” do you need?
Gaza is an open air prison. People are living in absolute ruin. The United States went on to slaughter thousands of Afghans and Iraqis in retaliation of 9/11 – on the basis of “protecting” its people. Well, 1.5 million people have been imprisoned and subjected to the worst conditions possible – and when in they throw rockets and you want the rockets stopped … you don’t slaughter more of them! That’s NOT how you get the rockets to stop!
So what, you mean that there should be a march in support of the oppressed Israeli settlers who can only get 345 channels on their satellite TV?
Dear Pedestrian,
I)
As to an interview published in the serious German national weekly “DIE ZEIT” online on 27th October, 2009 under the headline “We have got to integrate/include the Hamas – The extension of Israeli settlements endangers peace” with Mustafa Barghouti,
the following comment “The Allied Powers and Germany after World War II” was added by me under the penname “Publicola” [“German” doesn’t make much sense in Germany, I guess]:
II)
» Did not the Allied Powers within ca. 5 years after the end of World War II possess the generosity – even for whatever self-interests – to allow Germany to exist again as a state, though partitioned at first, but with the long-term aim of a sovereign state and
to immediately admit Germany into the community of nations
(in spite of its gigantic crimes within and without Germany, crimes never to be righted/compensated and inexcusable) ?
Did not Germany have the insight on its own (achieved by whatever means) to agree to its readmission as a state ?
Are not both the own self-interests as well the own insight of all conflicting parties – in comparison – potentially great enough to agree now to a fair peace with no territorial losses involved for the two conflicting parties – after decades (!) of military altercations ?
Are not (for innumerable reasons) Europe’s and Germany’s interests gigantic in a fair and peaceful agreement ?
Do not have the outside states the well-founded suspicion that Israel does not show exactly great insight as to its long-term self-interests at the time being ?
How is any state (e.g. Israel) to live through the next 20 years, if internationally its behaviour appears irritating, snubbing and creating or maintaining hatred ?
Should not genuine friendship (between Germany and Israel) lead here to distinct expressions of advice (even out of deepest self-interest) ? «
Thank you for your patience [with me ! ]
German
Sorry, I forgot:
here the link for reasons of verification
(article + comment(s)):
http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2009-10/barghouti-wahlen?page=all
Hi Pedestrian,
I came across your blog through a link left by one of your readers in his/her recent comment on the Qifa Nabki Lebanese blog. I have to admit that I seldom go through blogs that are not related to Lebanese issues, but I found myself spending hrs going through your posts. Amazing talent & excellent writings.
Your “About” section is beyond impressive.
Best.
Ped is it really the ordinary Gaza people that are shooting rocket at Israeli towns tho?
It seems to me Hamas is just as big a problem and guilty in the plight of Gazans as Israel.
So while its true that condition of the civilians in Gaza is unacceptable by any standard (indeed more should be done to pressure Israel to ease their blockade), we must not forget that both sides are at fault (the governments not the people).
As for some of us Iranians being anti-Palestine as you call it, it seems to me while sad to be slightly rational. While the past maybe the past let us not forget that Palestinians did support Saddam war against us, so why should we be enemies with Israel for their sake? The fact that the government spends our nations money on Islamic resistance groups when they could be spending it on much needed places in Iran certainly certainly doesn’t help make people more pro-Palestine either.
I think Iran should conduct its foreign policy when it comes to Israel in similar fashion to Turkey.
Anyway I understand the point of your post wasn’t about Iran’s relation to Israel and Palestinians factions so I apologize for the derailment(and the longs post), and while doubtful I do hope that Americans under Obama manage to reach some sort of conclusive peace treaty between the Arabs and the Israelites.
Pedestrian, Hamas rockets weren’t targeting settlers, they were targeting and killing Israelis within the pre-1967 borders. (Not writing this to justify anything one way or another, just to clarify.)
You should be campaigning for Egypt to open its border with Gaza and supply electricity etc. I see no reason why the Israelis should be expected to be nice to their sworn enemies.
We need to be careful about the word “children” in this context. It means anyone under 18, but most people reading that “children” have been killed, think of five or six year olds, not of 17-year olds with guns.
Why can’t the Gazans get the same number of channels on their satellite TVs as the Israelis?
I think the troubles of the Gazans are entirely self-inflicted. If they concentrated on building up their own economy and forgot about their obsessive hatred of Jews, everyone would be pleased to help them. They already receive massive amounts of aid.
German, thank you SO much!
PN, thank you and welcome
Arty, I think the support (financial, “spiritual” (as they call it), political) the Iranian government gives the resistance movements is a geopolitical strategy (and quite hypocritical when you see what is going on at home.) Some of the strategy has worked, some of it hasn’t. But I agree that Iran NEEDS a more rational approach to this. But we need a more rational approach to many things!
With regards to Arafat’s support for Saddam – I think there are two ways to look at this: a political and a personal. On a personal level, if I believe that Israel’s occupation is WRONG and destructive, that has nothing to do with what Arafat did or didn’t do. Since when are politicians the measure of anything good? On a political level howeve,r that SHOULD be a BIG warning sign to the Iranians. I’m not sure if it is! And I don’t agree with your “as” clause (Hamas “as” guilty as Israel). Even if you believe that Hamas is guilty, each party is responsible according to their power.
Kellie, I know! They were targeting mostly Sderot, that is not a settlement. I just meant: Israel already has the billions of aid and support – so what exactly do you propose that we hold a “march” for in their benefit?
Don:
Egypt is one issue. Israel is another! Egypt SHOULD be opening its borders, but Israel is the occupying power!
Yes, indeed we need to be clear! I was referring to the five and six year olds that were killed. “if they concentrated on building up their own economy”? Don, I think you need to see and read more about the realities in Gaza. It’s easy to say: “whatever … it’s their own problem” and be done with it! But that’s NOT the reality!
And to arty, Don and Linda:
I wish the Palestinian resistance movements were 100% nonviolent. For the most part they are, and we don’t pay attention to them so long as they are non-violent! But so long as the occupation exists, and so long as there is NO alternative, violence forms of resistance will exist. I’m not promoting them, but that is the reality.
Have you watched the violent ways settlers harass/beat/brutalize the Palestanians? Have you see them go through Palestinian Olive trees? Have you see the way hundreds of thousands of Palestinians are forced through checkpoints in the most degrading ways?
Why not have Israeli settlers and IDF soldiers go through checkpoints? Why not have them show their IDs 1000 times a day?
Anna Baltzer and Mostafa Barghouti were on the Daily Show a few nights ago. Quoting Anna Baltzer:
There is nothing defensive about denying Palestinians water. There is nothing defensive about preventing people from having materials to build their homes. So many of the institutions that I understood to be defensive cannot be justified by security anymore. Building a wall between Palestinians and Palestinians?
I may add: STEALING land? (the wall is NOT on Israel proper) continuing the siege of Gaza?
You can justify 100% of this violent brutality with “it’s their own fault” and be done with it – if that helps you go to sleep at night, fine.
But that doesn’t change reality. And it doesn’t help its betterment either.
Pedestrian, my feeling (looking on from far away, as the rest of those here also seem to be,) is that lifting economic restrictions on Gaza would be good not just for the people of Gaza, but also for democratic political opposition to Hamas in Gaza, and therefore ultimately for Israel.
That said, the aim here is primarily to change Israeli policy. To deny the grief of Israelis bereaved due to Hamas targeting of civilian towns would be a very ineffective way to go about such persuasion. To ignore the genocidal Hamas Charter would also be a mistake. And to deny the repressive behaviour of Hamas against Palestinians within Gaza would be to fail in showing true solidarity to the people of Gaza.
It seems there are strong parallels here with the complexities faced by outsiders in considering issues of solidarity in relation to Iran!
Kelli, to me, it’s not about denying anyone anything, but in fact, just the opposite: allowing EVERYONE the same things. And to hold people accountable: to each according to his POWER. Hamas, Israel, Iran … Hamas doesn’t have one of the most advanced armies in the world. It doesn’t receive BILLIONS of dollars of aid and more than that in support from the United States every year (the so called “leader” of the “free world”) for IMPRISONING 1.5 MILLION people in the world’s biggest open air prison in the most atrocious of environments and building an apartheid wall to steal land from the rest. It must be held accountable for its actions, charter, etc but so should Israel. But so far as this one sided approach exists, so long as such violent brutality exists, so long as the powerful are the only ones who get to critique and condemn … I don’t see this going anywhere. The world has already condemned Hamas and the Palestinian people a million times over …
Re:
„Israel did that to Palestine“ – „Palestin did that to Israel” or the vicious circle,
this kind of circle naturally leading nowhere but only into a nightmarish, deteriorating disastrous time warp
After World War I, the Allied Powers thought it might be a good idea at least somehow and to a at least some tiny degree to act according to the principle of the »ius talionis« (going back to Hammurabi, the aim of which being to prevent vengeful retributions on the offender much worse than the crime, perhaps even death) as to the culprit Germany, that had either started WW I or at least contributed considerably to its outbreak: reparation payments Germany had to pay and loss of territory formerly belonging to Germany were enormous.
The result:
nationalism (immediately becoming “National Socialsm” or “Nazism”) – the ideology of the humiliated and insulted – did not take long to make itself felt unpleasantly in Germany.
Thus some years later this German nationalism made itself felt in the whole of Europe:
via the “retribution” Germany felt justified to impart on its “hereditary foes” and stealers of money and land (that’s how Germany felt or pretended to feel to excuse its occupation of the complete territory of Europe): WW II !
After the end of WW II, this German Journey Of Retribution Into The Night Of Europe, the Allied Powers , i. e. mainly countries which had just been often cruelly occupied by Germany for quite a while (i.e. the duration of WW II), again had to decide:
a) either complete annihilation of the German territory and its transformation into a huge farm (“Morenthau Plan” – see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Plan) or
b) setting Germany on its feet again accompanied with some harmless measures to prevent a third outbreak of the “furor teutonicus” / of German aggressiveness.
This time farsightedness, not petty retributional thinking as after WW I, helped the Allied Powers (France, Great Britain, Soviet Union, USA) to find a future-compliant answer/response, nearly immediately.
Four years after the WW II the readmitted Germany to the international community of nations and supported the re-installation of Germany.
[Due to the “outbreak” of the “Cold War” occurring in the meantime, Germany at first was partitioned into West Germany and East Germany. Some years later there was an offer (seriously meant?) by the Soviet Union to end that partition … and so on … and so on …]
The motives of the Allied Powers for their Germany-friendly decision were multifarious:
be they the developing Cold War and each Superpower creating a new ally (West- opposed to East-Germany),
be they purely economic financial interest to create successful trading partners.
The outcome was this multi-motivated generosity of Europe and the USA (Canada, Australia included) towards Germany, resulting only a handful of years later in the economic miracle in many European countries and creating the European Dream, the European Union !
To put it in a nutshell: Taking account of their pure own long-term interests of creating a rapid, successful economic development of/in/for themselves, i.e. Europe and USA, led to the admiringly correct decision.
I am missing this regard for any pure own long-term interest on the part of Israel and its neighbours.
Israel being the economically, militarily, tactically and still (how long still ?) strategically strongest power compared to the Palestines and the neighbouring countries, i.e. the Middle East, ought to feel the obligation to think of a future transcending the time-span of one or two years, to be quite honest.
In a similar way and for identical reasons I miss this obligation to reflect on this necessary long-term stride
a) on the part of Germany, the main factual cause of the creation of Israel and the real culprit for the plight of the Palestines,
b) on the part of Europe and
c) on the part of the USA, to be quite honest.
…. Europe and the USA which had acted in a considered, future-compliant, sensible way some decades before today in the case of the defeated horrible ugly extermination-machine Nazi-Germany.
Narrowness and small-minded, calculating pettiness will not help solve this disastrous inexorably deteriorating crisis going on for not just four years, but sixty years and many to follow – no way !
“ius talionis” = “an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth”
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_talionis
German, if there’s anyone whose lessons we should all listen to, it is you and your stories of Germany!
I love them and thank you so much for putting the time to write them!
You nailed it: “I am missing this regard for any pure own long-term interest on the part of Israel and its neighbours.”
I also think there is a difference between a blame game and acknowledging POWER – where it lies, how it operates, and in which hands. Israel has the upper hand in much of this dialogue (economic, military, geopolitical alliances with the world powers, etc). This has never been a constructive debate between two remotely equal partners. There has also never been a worldwide acceptance of Palestinian grievances. Millions of them are refuges. Nearly a million were forced to flee their homes in 48. And it’s as if these are non-human, non-entities. Human beings who’ve grown out of thin air. (e.g., speeches by Rania of Jordan who btw makes me sick to my stomach. She explains the ruin they live in, as if that’s just the way it’s always been, she never goes further. As if this ruin has no political context.)
I think there needs to be a change in the dialogue. I see hints of it. Or it could just be that I am young, optimistic, and naive!
“An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind”
as Gandhi and later on by Martin Luther King commented on this “lex talionis”
I feel honoured, by you and Naj, to be given the permission, so to speak, to participate in that grand polylogue of yours and your knowledgeable, caring readers, collaborators, commentators and supporters (I remember spontaneously BTL, Parvati, Pirouz, supp, American man, not to mention all the other excellent specimens of the human race,
who to remember everyone correctly by her/hius penname a “galloping Alzheimer disease” prevents me from) – somehow a “crême de la crême” [excepting me "footsoldier", of course].
Why not support these two highly intelligent people, gifted with an artistic talent and a caring heart in addition – in a world obviously dominated too frequently and (geographically) too extensively by primates ?
Why not collaborate with them against this (obviously global) “hegemony of chimpanzees” in this crazy world ?
Why not support the “Two Musketeers” ?
German
Let me try to put this another way. The people of Iran have faced enemies abroad and enemies at home. Some of the cruder Western Leftists have argued that the enemies of Iran’s people within Iran should not be criticised because the more important and powerful enemies are the ones outside Iran. Anti-Imperialism trumps Iranian human rights in their argument.
My contention is that the people of Gaza face enemies inside Gaza as well as outside. Let’s not fall in the same trap on Gaza as Ahmadinejad’s Western apologists fall into on Iran.
Kellie, I understand where you’re coming from. That’s why I said: to each according to his POWER.
And in the end, just like I think 95% of westerners on right or left don’t have a friggin clue of what the Iranians are saying or what they “want” and I would personally be grateful if they shut up about pretending to be experts – I’m not going to claim I know what Palestinians want either.
You’re much too kind German! I enjoy our conversations. I learn so much from them.
@ Don Cox:
Israelis should be “expected to be nice to their sworn enemies” because international humanitarian law demands that occupiers take steps to ensure for the safety of the population they occupy. This is a positive responsibility, which Israel is doing the opposite of. Properly, it should be bombing itself.
“I think the troubles of the Gazans are entirely self-inflicted. If they concentrated on building up their own economy and forgot about their obsessive hatred of Jews, everyone would be pleased to help them. They already receive massive amounts of aid.”
Yes. Go read the UNDP report on Israeli de-development of the Gaza strip. Perhaps that bombed themselves during Cast Lead, I can’t recall. They don’t obsessively hate Jews. Plenty of Jews have been in Gaza, safely. That is anyway irrelevant, except from the standpoint of issuing apologetics for state-terror. On that front, you’re doing fine.
@Kellie:
“That said, the aim here is primarily to change Israeli policy. To deny the grief of Israelis bereaved due to Hamas targeting of civilian towns would be a very ineffective way to go about such persuasion. To ignore the genocidal Hamas Charter would also be a mistake. And to deny the repressive behaviour of Hamas against Palestinians within Gaza would be to fail in showing true solidarity to the people of Gaza.”
If you’re concerned about Sderot’s people, look to why Hamas rockets fell on them. It should be easy to figure out, and it has nothing to do with “anti-Semitism,” thanks, nor does Hamas’s popularity, which has to do with it being embedded in civil society and it being a real resistance movement. The Palestinians voted for Hamas. They voted for Hamas because Fatah is complicit in collaboration. Dahlan tortures resisters. Fatah is rife with corruption. “Charters” aren’t genocidal. Charters are words. Israeli actions are genocidal. Seems to me worthwhile to pay attention to genocidal actions rather than genocidal words. Perhaps you disagree, but I can’t imagine you can make a strong argument for it.
“It seems there are strong parallels here with the complexities faced by outsiders in considering issues of solidarity in relation to Iran!”
It seems to me nothing of the sort.
@ Kellie:
“My contention is that the people of Gaza face enemies inside Gaza as well as outside. Let’s not fall in the same trap on Gaza as Ahmadinejad’s Western apologists fall into on Iran.”
So easy to talk of Ahmadinejad’s three or four Western apologists and then suggest that the situation in Gaza represents an equivalent issue. It doesn’t. We are paying for the bombshells that fall on Gaza’s children, and the issue of Hamas is irrelevant from that perspective. One thing those brown-skinned people in the eastern Mediterranean region do from time to time is vote against what imperialists think their interests should be. It’s funny, but that’s how democracy works.
@ Max: thanks for the expert knowledge imparted by your arguments contributing to the increase of your readers’/my insight into that complex situation !
Postscriptum
Dear Pedestrian,
one (last) guess when comparing the Middle-East-muddled situation Israel-Palestine with historical European events:
my uneducated guess (being not a historian): if the Allied had practiced the quasi territorial annhiliation of Germany after WWII – as for some time discussed (“Morgenthau Plan”) – they would have unleashed a guerrilla warfare of a part of the Germans who didn’t need really to be radicalized (who could be more radicalized than the Germans had been already) – and Europe would be still in a very sorry state of affairs, a poorhouse. The Allied must have sensed that – and have decided on a restructuring of destroyed Germany.
Unfortunately Israel, though also having won different wars in that region, isn’t that farsighted as all the Allied combined were at that time, but Israel thinks it can have the cake (i.e. occupy a territory) and eat it at the same time (i.e. have peace without ending/foreclosing the occupation of the defeated Palestinians).
In the meantime the (former) Allied (powers against Germany) seem to have unfortunately forgotten this distinct lesson taught by history and don’t seem to advise their client Israel on that issue (easy to see through) in any appropriate way, be it prudently or responsibly.
German
Max, you are of course correct that actions are in the end more important than words, but words often come before action. “A declaration of genocidal intent” might be a clearer description of the charter.
My understanding is that Fatah’s loss of support in the last election had much more to do with corruption in Fatah than “because Fatah is complicit in collaboration”.
I think it’s worth looking back at the period after Hamas won a majority of seats in the assembly (though narrowly losing the popular vote) but before the point when they siezed presidential power in Gaza by force. At that point Abbas, whose legal status as president was not affected by the assembly vote, was seeking a referendum on policy towards Israel backing negotiation. Hamas opposed the referendum, and opinion polls suggested the electorate would back Abbas. Of course opinion polls are fallible, and we’ll never know for certain what the result might have been as Hamas prevented the vote from taking place.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/05/israel
As I’m sure you’re aware, defenders of the most ruthless military action on the Israeli side like to argue that Palestinians are essentially all for war. Portraying all Gazans as at one with Hamas is not only untrue, it plays into the hands of enemies over the border and feeds the justifications given for the siege.
To argue that Hamas, an active party to the conflict and a promoter of war, is “irrelevant” seems a bit odd.
German, your pointing to the EU earlier as a model for peace is something I agree with in principle. In fact UN Resolution 181 from 1947 proposed a solution along these lines, even anticipating the common currency idea. It surely ranks as one of the greatest lost opportunities in a long history of lost opportunities. Unfortunately no side appears to be fully pursuing the principles it outlined.
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/res181.htm
To whom it concerns:
There are discussions which ultimately lead noone anywhere except perhaps to the moon or mars, these planets not exactly being the aim of an exchange of arguments about the Israel-Palestine conflict.
The debate I am observing here seems to be such an undertaking, to be quite honest.
A time-honoured proof of that seems to be that
a viable progress to a sensible solution – and that can definitely and only be a viable sovereign Palestinian state – seems to lie in cloud-cuckoo-land, to be serious and to be quite honest.
Public international law has long since defined the criteria of a state worthy of and deserving that name – as
a political association with effective internal and external sovereignty over a geographic area and population which is not dependent on, or subject to any other power or state
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_international_law + http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_state).
The defeated party in that conflict, the Palestinians, hasn’t got anywhere in that respect since 1967,
independently of whoever is/was leading, is/was the spokesperson, is/was/has been elected, etc. etc. …. you name it.
The victorious party doesn’t simply seem capable to factually acknowledge this aim.
Unfortunately the European and American allies do not seem capable or willing either to enforce this solution of a viable Palestinian state, which is identical with peace.
What we have seen instead in the last forty years is a steady and wider spreading radicalization within the Islamic and Arab world, not least caused by the presented state of affairs.
It does ultimately not seem absurd, amiss, bizarre or unfounded to allocate the responsibility in such cases for such a sorry state of affairs as a rule to the victorious party and allies concerned, to be quite honest.
Why mantra-like repeat historic examples of peace-making and peace-keeping in any random region of the world proving that phenomenon ?
Why mantra-like enumerate the numerous states and organisations that obviously do not meet the demands of their international responsibility ?
Why mantra-like repeat, that the Palestinians of all people weren’t culpable for this burning and destructive Middle-East-conflict?
Why mantra-like repeat that there was a WW II, concretely Nazi-Germany, forcing the Jews to establish a state ?
Why mantra-like repeat that there were gigantic new territorial arrangements on an unprecedented scale in the wake of WW II in Europe, in the Middle East, in the former colonial Empires,
of which the Palestinians were the ultimate victims
true to the principle “The devil takes the hindmost.”
That’s why from now on this debate here on this blog and thread will not be continued on my part, as not being target-aimed (see above).
German
@ Kellie:
You write, “Max, you are of course correct that actions are in the end more important than words, but words often come before action. “A declaration of genocidal intent” might be a clearer description of the charter.”
That’s fine, except Hamas has repeatedly offered a decade-long or multi-decade hudna, truce. Also words. Serious words? We don’t know, because we won’t negotiate with Hamas. That is an action. It’s called refusing diplomacy, in favor of the gun, Israel’s general MO.
“My understanding is that Fatah’s loss of support in the last election had much more to do with corruption in Fatah than “because Fatah is complicit in collaboration”.”"
Hence my statement that Fatah lost support because of both corruption and collaboration.
“I think it’s worth looking back at the period after Hamas won a majority of seats in the assembly (though narrowly losing the popular vote) but before the point when they siezed presidential power in Gaza by force.”
Except this was to preempt a Fatah-Israel-US coup, as David Rose revealed in a 2008 issue of Vanity Fair.
“As I’m sure you’re aware, defenders of the most ruthless military action on the Israeli side like to argue that Palestinians are essentially all for war. Portraying all Gazans as at one with Hamas is not only untrue, it plays into the hands of enemies over the border and feeds the justifications given for the siege.”
Except that portrayal is your own invention. The siege has no justification, and the effects of stating the truth, that a Palestinian plurality voted for Hamas, is irrelevant if the siege is unjustifiable. Hamas isn’t for “war” it’s for “resistance.” One doesn’t accept the tacit justifications for atrocity, then say, if they’re true, then atrocity is justifiable, and so we can’t speak the truth. We say atrocity is unjustifiable and even if the tacit reasons for it are true it’s still unjustifiable.
But here I am hemming and hawing, responding to this rhetorical pretzel you’ve baked, when the PROBLEM is that Israel is punishing the people in Gaza for a political choice. When Arabs bomb white people for white governments’ policies, it’s called terrorism. When Israel does it, it’s war or self-defense, apparently, if strangely.
“To argue that Hamas, an active party to the conflict and a promoter of war, is “irrelevant” seems a bit odd.”
Hamas is not a promoter of war. Hamas and the people of Gaza and the West Bank are victims of aggression and occupation. To not make that the focus of any analysis doesn’t strike me as “odd,” not at all. It strikes me as morally decrepit.
Thank you for posting this – I have noticed the same problem of some Iranians turning a blind eye to Palestine (or worse, siding with the oppressors) because of the IRI’s support for Palestine. As an Iranian and a Jew who is deeply committed to Palestinian liberation, it’s all the more frustrating for me to see that kind of “the enemy of my enemy [Israel] is my friend” sentiments.
(By the way, have you heard this song? It’s great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_FR23×7Nvk )
damndamndamn …!! I’d been writhing like a poisoned sybil for hours and hours due to an …anguish-hunch?… about the probable place-of-family-origin of the man responsible for today’s tragic shooting at that military base in Texas – just discovered my hunch was correct, alas!
Worried about the slow-burn effects of the emotional backlash this tragedy will produce in the US on the already-dire Israel/Palestine situation … just when it seemed like things could hardly get any worse for Palestinians, this had to happen …