Where have I heard this before?
Feb 26th, 2011 by pedestrian
Mousavi and now Karoubi have been under siege – a blockade – on their homes for weeks (and days) respectively.
Their daughters have written a letter, petrified for their parents’ well being: the lights in the house never turn on. Who knows where they really are? Or what they’re being fed? What treatment they are getting? Are they even dead or alive?
When the daughers have approached the MASKED security forces to inquire about their parents, to inquire about the warrant that has been issued for their arrest, they have heard in response: “it’s none of your business where the warrant is or who it comes from. Get out of there.”
Video of Mousavi’s house:
A photo of the iron door that is said to have been built by security forces:
And the vans that had blocked the house before the door was built (probably from the other side of the street):
The outrageous, heinous nature of this blockade is preposterous. I am really at a loss for words. Just when you think the fascists couldn’t come up with a more heinous plan, they outdo themselves. At least with political prisoners, they have to acknowledge that they have been imprisoned. With this, they don’t even have to acknowledge the existence of these folks.
Just like they erase the identity of the dead, they erase the identity … the very existence … of anyone they choose. They don’t even have to go through the trouble of imprisoning them in their torture chambers or trying them in their sham courts.
They just erase them. It’s that simple. It’s an assassination without bullets. Just as violent and bloody and macabre, just without the guns. (sarcastically) It seems that it is the hardliners that have taken “nonviolence” to heart.
The only other time that I remember such preposterous assassinations was when the Arafat compound in Ramallah was put under a blockade by Sharon.
[From Life Magazine: Israeli tanks continue to hold their positions within the West Bank headquarter compound of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat March 31, 2002 in Ramallah. Arafat remains confined to his offices for a third straight day following a military seige by Israeli Defense Forces into the compound with tanks and ground troops.]
And the illegal wall in the West Bank gobbling up more Palestanian land:
This is not meant to compare Arafat with Iran’s opposition leaders, or Palestine with Iran. But I dont have in recent memory any other governments that have done the unthinkable. That have stolen land and annihilated people without even going about it in the violent ways we are all too used to (although Israel certainly made up for that in “Operation Cast Lead”). And even then, the tanks outside Arafat’s compound were a testament to what was being done. The wall has been the subject of films, vidoes, photography, etc. With this blockade, all we have is a small cell phone shot. Two in fact. And that’s it.
In fact, maybe we were the ones who were wrong all the time? Maybe were the ones who are becoming dellusional? The prime minister during the period of war in Iran was probably someone else. A certain Ramin Mousavi maybe? The elections in 2009 went well and life went back to normal stupid! Mir Hossein or Karoubi who? What opposition? Are you hallucinating?
I bet it’s just all the hallucinatory pills Ghadafi claims Libyan protesters are taking in their Nescafé … now poured into our Persian tea.
I think you are right in many ways.
tehran bureau is reporting on rumours that m & k have been moved to a ‘safe house’ in an undisclosed location… ?
inna, I heard that too! but so far it hasn’t been confirmed by Kaleme, so I’m not sure if it’s true :-S
:-s :-s
That they just “kidnap” men, men who used to be prime ministers and parliament speakers, without ANY explanation, and that no one really dares doing anything is fascinatingly depressing.
Stalin used to remove people in similar ways, and many “disappeared” under the military government in Argentina and under Pinochet in Chile.
However, I do not think Mousavi and Karoubi are “good guys” – they support the Khomeinist theocratic regime, and have done since the start. This is a case of the revolution eating its own.
As for Arafat, he was a slimy terrorist crook and a vicious anti-semite. He stole large amounts of money from the Palestinians. I am surprised to find you supporting him. We are all better off without him.
Don Cox, please leave the good guy/bad guy labeling to us Iranians. They supported reform, not revolution … and it wasn’t only them. I (and many others I know, though certainly not everybody) was a strong believer in that too – up until the time it made a shred of sense, or seemed to.
As for Arafat, I wasn’t “defending” his failed tenure as a Palestinian leader. His merits (or lack of) are for Palestinians to judge. I was thinking that the only other time that I remember such outrageous actions was when the Arafat blockade happened (though I would argue this is worse, the IDF and tanks being involved made the culprits clearly visible. whereas in the case of Iran, there’s NO ONE claiming responsibility). Israel had no RIGHT to put him under siege, how would the world react if a group of Palestinian thugs put that Nazi Lieberman under siege?
Naj, I can not imagine what it would be like to be Mousavi or Karoubi’s kin. NO ONE is taking responsibility, no one is even acknowledging that it’s happened … beh rooyeh khodeshoon ham nemiyaran. It’s SO fucking scary.
@ Don Cox: And what makes you justified in saying someone is “bad” because they support “khomeini”? With your labeling “fluency”, calling one good guy, another bad guy and the third slimy, you qualify to join the oppressive forces in Iran. The fanatics we are up against sound terribly similar to you!!!!
Real life is not a comic book; although it may seem so hard to Americans to believe that is the case!
@ Ped, what makes it scary is that it is totally unprecedented! I would have been ‘happier’ if they issued arrest warrants and then executed them the day after!!! The message they are sending now is: “good bye the rule of law”!
I think Montazeri and Motahari’s interjections were positive steps; as if they were giving the blood thirsty Khamenei a hint to restore some form of national reconciliation. I think that Hashemi’s holding so tight to the middle reflects the same desperate attempt to restore SOME from of sanity, especially because he insisted on his position after the videos of despicable harassment of his daughter circulated. I don’t know if you saw this: http://www.30mail.net/weblog/2011/feb/27/sun/7840
Ahmadinejad’s harvesting all the crops, I have to say. While radicals of the dictatorship/democracy poles are chewing eachother’s throat, he goes and washes off his hands of crime by lecturing Gaddafi about the horrors of killing his compatriots; and on the other hand he is making financial promises, not only in terms of “rayaneh”, but also in terms of the profitability of certain “investments” … in other words, he is keeping the mouths of the poor and the rich shut; letting the ‘disagreeable middle class’ exhaust itself in dealing with the velayat goons … it’s a circus!
Naj, thanks for the 30mail link! I hadn’t seen it. It’s a really good article. I’ve never, ever stopped wondering why they went after Rafsanjani that way – some of the reformists. I was reading their newspapers, magazines, etc everyday and I never understood how it could benefit anyone. Granted he’s no saint, but it was so vicious and uncalled for. That video of Faezeh was horrible – I am so ashamed.
I totally agree with you: issuing arrest warrants and executing innocents shows some, minimal, miniscule, despicably low respect for the law. This is just a wild west scenario. They won’t even acknowledge that they’ve done it! har chi mizanam too sareh khodam hanooz bavaram nemishe.
“And what makes you justified in saying someone is “bad” because they support “khomeini”? ”
Supporters of Khomeini are “bad” because Khomeini was an evil man. “Bad” includes having very poor judgement, like all the left wingers who used to support Stalin.
Don, in the same way supporters of Obama are “bad” because he is “evil” in promoting and increasing drone attacks in Pakistan? and all left wingers support Stalin the way all right wingers support Adolf Hitler?
You should do a course on the art of generalization. It makes the world seem like such a happy, harmonious place.
I just stumbled upon a headline stating that Moussavi and Karoubi have been arrested and jailed. It seems that the Iranians authorities at least acknowledge their acts. Or maybe they will just say they turned themselves to the police?
Jean, I read too and Kaleme has verified that they are now in Heshmatiyeh Prison. Ejei has also said that all internet and phone routes to Mousavi and Karoubi have been cut off. LOL … can’t believe things are so bad that this actually sounds like good news! At least someone is acknowledging something out there.
This is a very interesting article in many ways for me Ped. I have been reading you for a long whole now and have hardly left any comments but this post of yours plus the one on the way you were “disillusioned” by the brutality of the regime and how the horrid 80s was not really YOUR reality explained so so so much about you and the tone you took after the mock election failed and the crackdowns afterwards. My Iran was that of the first 15 years – I lived through the experience of missing friends in photographs and the nightmare of not feeling safe anywhere. I never had the “pleasure” of the heated political exchanges you labeled “tofighe ejbari”. I was not privileged enough to attend a progressive south of Tehran school where families of war martyrs illuminated you on freedom of speech and thought. So when the election failed I was not surprised, when the crackdowns began “again” I was not shocked. heartbroken certainly but not “shocked”.
And now … you express outrage over the “disappearance” of Moussavi and Karoub???!! Who the fuck cares???!! They played the game, the are burning because they are too close to the fire, simple. So bloody what? That we should feel sorry for the suffering of their kids? Maybe I will find a shred of humanity in my hear and possibly some pity if I appeal to my senses as a mother but that is on a good day … *insert a smirk right here*. Before you are so quick to dismiss Don’s words as irrelevant due to him NOT being Iraninan, think of this. He cares enough to read you and to leave comments and to know details and it seems to me my surprisingly naive blog sister, that you may want to remember the bad old days a little more in context.
I am sure you will have a lengthly opposing reply to this dismissing my hate mongering and I will look forward to Naj’s backing of it. And yes I am smiling as I write this. Hopefully you won’t interprete the hostility in my tone in the direction it is directed: the optessors getting a taste of their own bitter med.
And if you have a chance have a read here, perhaps her pain will shed a bit more realism light on your views on this particular matter ( usually you are overdosing on sensibility and realistic thought! what happened?! :p )
http://www.iran-free.org/1389/12/07/aagh/
bargeboo, I don’t dismiss your views. You lived in Iran at a time when these brutalities were a part of daily life. It was a revolution after all with all the brutality and bloodshed that revolutions bring. What I find astonishing however, is when your generation dismisses mine. (I’m not talking about you specifically, I’ve never had a conversation with you
but many people I’ve met from a generation before me). They rip me to shreds for suggesting that things were any different than what they experienced – or that they ever could be. It is a collection of our experiences, your suffering and my privilege, and countless other stories in between that make up the narrative of Iran. It is not just your suffering alone, nor my privilege alone.
I am highly highly skeptical of anyone who tries to extract this good vs. evil narrative out of Iran. That molds people into a good or evil Batman story in which they are condemned to remain for eternity. I don’t see it any different than the Ahmadinejad doctrine, the Bush doctrine, and the same doctrine that has wrecked havoc in Iran for decades now. I deeply appreciate that Don Cox gives my blog the time of day. But that doesn’t mean I agree with his worldview, or think it is anything less than destructive. I think a “iran-free” is when we rise above this narrative, as a country combined.
Thanks for the link. I read it. And like her I hope too that one day every last person can be held accountable for their actions. But it wasn’t the first time I read, heard and watched this story. I don’t question the brutality that was suffered. But that doesn’t take away my experience in a different Iran. That (at least some) of the brutal revolutionary forces matured into more pragmatic, tolerant force I don’t question either. Not because they are saints or woke up to the gospels one morning, it was an inevitable outcome. Maybe because your generation saw and touched that suffering firsthand, they are too traumatized to ever rise above that good vs. evil narrative? It was the result of this maturing that gave me and millions of kids like me the opportunity to grow up in a semi-sane society. Right now my facebook feed is filled with photos and messages that my friends have put up for Mousavi. I doubt any of these kids will put their life in danger to rescue him out of his misery … and I find that a good thing!
This is the same man who was prime minister during the most brutal, violent crackdown on citizens in Iran’s recent history. But I don’t think you can reduce his legacy to that alone.
Oh, and lastly (if you’re still here
) this post was less about worrying for Mousavi and more about the state’s ability to erase people, even people with a highly public/political identity (which is harder to do).
@bargeboo:
Why NOT worry about Mousavi and Karoubi?
Because we hold a grudge against all IRI, including them?
Is worrying about them about their persona? Or is it about the “act” of abducting “public figures” in broad daylight.
And has our history not suffered enough from this cynicism; from this holding and eternal grudge against dynasty X and dynasty Y?
How long shall we throw the baby out with the bath water?
These days, I CRINGE on hearing people saying they don’t give a damn about Karoubi; they condemn Hashemi, they don’t trust Khatami, they …
There are men, who have arisen from WITHIN the system to highlight WHy the system is going awry; they stood up to warn us fascism was poised to take us; they stood up KNOWING that they were the symbol of hope for a youth that even they, being religious conservatives, did not fully support. And YET, they didn’t empty their camps, and stood for people who put their hope in their name. And now, I sit somewhere, stew in a 20 year long grudge and “proudly” say “my carometer hovers around zero” … it is BECAUSE of such expression of apathy that were are in such miserable state.
@Ped you said: “I doubt any of these kids will put their life in danger to rescue him out of his misery … and I find that a good thing!”
Not to nitpick and I agree with most of what you have to say, but the above sentence seems to imply that facebook status updates are the extent to which you believe they deserve support and that some prison time might actually do them good. (sorry if I’m oversimplifying your position, but I think a clarification might help if that isn’t what you are hinting at)
I don’t really know to what extent Mousavi was aware of the 1988 executions. His resignation letter seems to indicate that security matters did not fall under his purview. Montazeri’s memoir actually seems to suggest that even Khamenei might not have been in the loop. [though he may have feigned ignorance for Montazeri's sake]
But leaving aside the executions, there is another point, and it might sound silly but I don’t think Mousavi, Karroubi etc. even had much of an understanding or a conscious awareness of Human Rights back in the day. They probably saw themselves as arms of the revolution and as most other “good muslins” did, found justifications for their actions in the blessings and approval of Khomeni. This might be hard to grasp for an outsider but as someone who grew up in Iran, I’m sure you know that many, many, people genuinely believed Khomeini to be the personification of all that is good. Unlike these days, due to the popularity of Khomeini and marginalization of the different opposition factions it was much easier to tune out or overlook any voices or evidence to the contrary.
I’m not trying to cook up excuses for them. Regardless of ones academic understanding of human rights if they were exposed to the same facts that Montazeri was, I believe the only humane reaction would be to copy what Montazeri did. I’m just not sure that they ever did get that exposure.
After Khomeini died, it was getting collectively kicked out of all branches of government that ignited the leftist with realization of the value of legitimate dissent. I think they have shown consistent and tremendous growth in this regards especially throughout the Khatami years.
Ultimately I hope that, them witnessing “westernized youth” (in propaganda terms at least) risking skin and bone for their sake has taught them any final lessons in humility they might have needed, and I also think the continuation of this trend can only reinforce the message.
foruhar, thanks! words get lost in even from the same language to the same language
No, I didn’t mean to imply in any way that facebook messages are the extent of the support they deserve. I was more thinking about the extent of support that is possible. Look at how many young people have died or gone to prison in the past 20+ months. I meant to say that: we respect Mousavi, but we’re not shaking with undying devotion. He’s not an idol the way the likes of Khomeini were (and that’s what I meant is a good thing). So I don’t see protesters willing to die in the hundreds (or thousands) to free him. If he’s being kept in Heshmatiyeh, the military prison, they would have to actually break down a military site to free them. who knows how many people could get slaughtered in the process?
(if my first comment did go through it was incomplete, this one is edited, if you indeed wish to publish it)
@Ped: Ok … so … here is my take on your reply. I read my comment once again and I fail to see exactly when and where I “dismissed” you and your whole generation. I did call you naive and I did say that my Iran was of the first 15 years but perhaps that relayed the message that I was some 50 year old, “too traumatized to ever rise above that good vs. evil narrative”. The truth can not be further from the truth on many levels. But before we discuss my age or what generation I belong to, lets assume I am indeed that 50 year old who has lived outside of Iran who left Iran during the early years of revolution, or I am someone who is now filled with so much “cynicism” that is now only capable of showing this kind of apathy (thats from naj BTW). Or lets assume, I was a man, who returned from Iran’s war, lives with major disability and all he has are hazy shocking memories and pure bitterness and anger over being used and now forgotten, or I am related to Zahra Kazemi’s family and had to experience their pain first hand, or was a distant cousin of Frouhar’s and the hole in my heart was never healed since their killers were never brought to justice and to add insult to the injury now I hear of those like you who recall the reign of Khatami as a more tolerant time … or maybe my dad was in the bus filled with intellectuals who on their way to Armenia were almost thrown into a ravine; or say … I am the wife of Pouyande or sister of Mokhtari or Chitgar, Mohammadi, or Keshavarz, Broumand, Aryamanesh, Izadi, Sirjani, Moftizadeh and so many many more, who were murdered during the so called politically engaging time in Iran when you were a high school student. Maybe my brother was forced out of Iran because he was about to be drafted to go to war at 15 and he had to be sent to Germany to fend for himself – Maybe he became lost to drugs and alcohol and prostitution. Maybe I am that boy and now have grown into a man, full of ideas and hatred and radical thoughts …. Does it matter if I am indeed all these things? Does it matter if I am not? Do you think I sensationalizing it? This is not for shock value sister. This is the fucking truth of Iran in the last 35 years. Along with many many wondrous and beautiful things that did happened in these years, I happen to NOT agree with how some of these brutal ass holes have now been able to see the light. The ultimate light to me is when they openly acknowledge that yes, religious and states can not commingle, they can coexist. Let Moussavi and Karoubi say that and then I may look for you in Facebook and post my own tearful and heartfelt expression of empathy about their sorry asses.
My point from my comment was that YOU-KNOW- all these things!! You have written in detail about these issues. AND yet, you managed to still express surprise at how brutal the regime could be. At how disappointed you felt that the “father figure” – our dear supreme leader – did not do the right thing by making things better .. remember that post you wrote? I should have posted something then but I was too depressed to write and just smirked and shook my head and let it go.
Your comments on my “generation” dismissing yours is so unfair and grossly misplaced I can not even begin to express to you. I have written EXTENSIVELY about the simple truth that Iran today is for better or worse the mixed pot of all the 20 somethings or have known nothing but IRI regime, those who are still very much in tune with what they perceive e to be true Islamic values, those who think the regime has gone astray and just needs to be led back to the right path, plus those refugees who had to flee and live in the most appalling conditions, those who have immigrated and are now teaching or working in various countries, those who still very much call themselves pro-monarchy and – I am cringing here as I write this – even those Iranians who are pro mojahedin.
WHEN and I don’t say IF; when the time comes for major change in Iran, all these people, all these “generations” with their own ideas on what the new Iran should be will pour back into the country. Almost all will be shaped by their “scars, traumas, and their age”. What then? We will dismiss them all? Calling them too damaged? Too old? Too royal? Too rich? Too socialist? Too Islamist? Too whatever? Who said your ideas and your voice was irrelevant?? I certainly never did. By the virtue of being here all these years you should know that I value your opinion and what you represent. I have quoted you and referred countless friends here (ya ya .. I know you wouldn’t have known that
) but don’t generalize. Don’t dismiss me. I agree, you don’t have to agree with me or with Don Cox’s out there. But I have a voice and I like it to be heard ( in case you haven’t figured it out after this long fucking “tumar!”), and I like to think in what shapes our Iran of tomorrow it is somewhat as relevant as yours, maybe not as articulated or informed.
So now, if YOU are still here, let me go back to the main point of my comment, I still maintain that Moussavi and Karoubi are getting what their damn asses deserve. They are being dealt a hand that can only be dealt to you if you are in the game yourself. Of course I object to the way they have been “erased”. That was never my point. My point was, it is NOT SURPRISING ONE BIT and I have no sympathy for THEM. A government run based on religious rules of law, is fundamentally flawed because it is precisely this easy to identify the once devout as now a heretic and worthy of “erasing”. As long as the rule of Sariat and Islam is co mingled with the rule of law, these subjective reference points will exist and they will shift on the whim of whomever is in power – so … NO I was not one bit surprised at what happened to them. I was surprised however, that you were. Cheers.
@naj ; These men were not braves to point out how the system was going astray, as the system was flawed from its beginning. There is no right path in the Islamic Republic – when the rule of the land is controlled by the “better than though” elite who speak the word of god through their elevated state of being, it does not matter if one says, his word is the absolute truth and another says its the partial truth. Religion and politics do NOT mix and this reform is a farce. It is more so as now all avenues of discussion have been closed shut with force. I do recall that when Khatami was in power, I had hope – plenty of it as I thought .. maybe here is a man who understands that reform means a slow progressively move away from religion based politics but that turned out to be a giant farce too. I never stopped being a cynic. Will you now rush to also tell me I am “fit to join the oppressive forces in Iran because I am as fanatic”? Will you not yell at me if I tell you I don’t really like Sandis anymore?
Hi bargeboo, thanks for suggesting that I wouldn’t publish your comment. I have not been on the blog for weeks, just got back and published everything that was here. I publish everything people are kind enough to leave, it just may take a while if I’m traveling.
Girl!! How was I to know you were away, you were missed you know … see? I can be nice and trust me, the lack of quotation mark in MY case does mean no sarcasm
. It’s your blog, your rules. Just looking forward to reading you again.
No, it’s not just my blog. I really, really appreciate that anyone out there gives me the time of day and leaves me a few words of their thoughts. Thank you!