STOP!!!!!!
Jul 21st, 2009 by pedestrian
My friend was released from prison after 27 days. Of course, after agreeing to sign a confession. One of the “documents” used to “prove” that he and dozens of other students were “Western agents” working to “overthrow the IRI” were pictures like this:
(Notice, the combination of green + lion/sun flag)
Photos like this were stuffed in their face for hours each day.
The bruises on his body are still ripe and red because he insisted that he was not demonstrating to topple the system (at the ripe ol’ age of 21!) after being shown these pictures.
Now those hideous child torturers would never run out of excuses, even if these photos did not exist. BUT why are some expats helping them come up with easier ones?
In an ideal world, we should all be free to express what we wish.
BUT
FUCKING SHAME on those expats who have MISused the recent events in Iran to put forth their own agendas.
Solidarity means NOTHING without understanding. Don’t we claim to demonstrate to show support for Iranians … IN Iran? These photos are hurting them! What more do they need to know?
In Toronto alone, four demonstration were held, the organizers REPEATEDLY asked the participants not to bring flags of any kind. The students organizers were willing to forgo the CURRENT, OFFICIAL flag just to prove that participants were there in support of IRAN irrespective of political affiliation … and EACH TIME the protests were SABOTAGED by the MONARCHISTS. They each had a DOZEN flags in their hands instead of just one!
My friends pleaded: PLEASE, let’s all put away our flags. To no avail.
These bums and bitches weren’t there to support IRAN or IRANIANS. The fucking, mindless ASSHOLES were there so they could gather around and feel good about their filthy selves and show a face or two for their hero, Prince of Darkness.
I AM SICK OF IT!
GO TO FUCKING HELL!
I totally agree with you. These people drive me crezy, I can’t bear no more their presence in our rallies, they are bunch of traitors to me (I’m in Canada!)
ps. When you say your friend, this is first hand narration ?
Yes, it’s firsthand.
Nazar, I have no problem with their politics. They are as Iranian as we are and someday I hope we can live in Iran TOGETHER. We have to “bear” each others presence if we are going to learn tolerance!
It’s not about their politics. Monarchist flags, apples, Nike shoes .. whatever that can HARM the protesters in Iran should be kept out for NOW while they can do serious harm to people IN Iran.
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4507232,00.html?maca=per-rss-per-all-1491-rdf
I think we should ALL put down our flags and just carry the sign that boy is carrying: AHMADINEJAD IS NOT IRAN’S PRESIDENT.
That’s what I’m talking about. I didn’t really know these people before and didn’t care much. But now I see how selfish and stupid they are actinf and that is just disgisting.
and Thanks for the anwers.
But just be careful: this “other”ing of different groups is exactly what we want to stay away from.
I couldn’t agree more. Some people, insisting they were not monarchists, did the same thing in Montreal. They insisted on having the lion&sun flag with them, even after everyone agreed on ‘no flags’. They are not here to support anyone, they just want to sleep better at night, thinking they did what they had to. And you know what ? they shouldn’t.
A lot of these recalcitrant Sheer-Khorshid flag wavers are not monarchists but Rajavists (mojahedin-e-khalq). I saw them at another event in Toronto and they are outright nutty (they shamelessly tried to hijack the Green Scroll signing event).
!
I’m hoping to go to a protest in my city on Saturday….our local Iranian community who are helping organise it have specified no flags or non-approved signs which is good – and warned us of people who may be there to hijack the event for their own causes. So I’m hoping things work out with no idiots turning up. It really makes me so angry to read about people who have absolutely no concept of how badly their actions may affect innocent people. This whole situation is very very very serious. It’s people’s LIVES at risk and it is just beyond me how selfish some of these people are….I’d love to put them in the place of those being tortured in prison in Iran and then see what they think about their decision to wave flags like that.
Sophie, some of them intentionally want to sabotage the protests, as the comments above show. But I think a lot of them are not insincere. They are honestly misinformed. They have been away from Iran for more than 30 years even. They haven’t a clue to what is going on over there or what the reality is like on the ground.
That’s why I said solidarity makes no sense without understanding. Given that they have been away for so long … they should spend some time TO EDUCATE themselves.
I posted this on my facebook!
Man you are angry; but I totally understand!
Since you are not on facebook, did you know that people are getting more excited about supoort of Sean Penn than their own intellectuals/writers/professors?
In early days, first all names began changing, next all pictures turned to “where is my vote” and then “free IRan” and “ahmadinejad’s notmypresident”. In that time, sensationalism was at hight, every one cried Iran Iran on any of teh videos of violence.
But as the number fo bloody videos reduced, so did the number of Iran-Iran posts! And then pictures started going back to normal, party pictures and travel photos reappeared.
Observing the transmogrification of Iranians and their emotional response to these events makes me think how well Behnoud described the “masses” of Iran. Unfortunately, a lot of IRanians think their MD/PhD/Engr degrees immune them to being gullible and myopic!! We need to promote political science and sociology education in Iran! SERIOUSLY!
Seeing how easily protests are sabotaged here and around the world, why do so many deny, downplay or ignore that the same is happening in Iran?
I search and find and post almost every day materials that show the tactics being used in Iran are certainly instigated by those wishing to carry out a coup d’état for another western puppet regime, and every time the protests are pacified the avaricious leaders escalate again, exactly per script, getting innocent people arrested and/or beaten for their avarice. You can see in your own protests the numbers who can be mobilized by enemies of the revolution, who ignore the injunctions against the filthy prince’s flag. Why is it so hard to believe this action is at work inside Iran?
It happened in Georgia. The Rose Revolution. It happened in Ukraine. The orange revolution. Both fomented and pressed by Western agents to topple Russia-friendly regimes. Mobs of people in the streets, demanding their votes. Declaring victory before the votes are finished counting to cast doubt on the result, to rush the result, to create chaos and outrage in the voters. These are just a couple of the more obvious things about this Green Revolution. They can insist truthfully it isn’t a revolution, but that’s the press it gets here, and certainly the name it will get if/when it succeeds in weakening Iran enough to get that puppet regime installed.
Yesterday it was only a few hundred in the streets and fifteen or twenty dragged in to be roughly treated until they sign a confession…. And these untrue confessions are truer than the victims of the coup leaders even know. The demonstrators, most of them, are unaware they are being manipulated to help put Iran back in Western hands.
If you love your friends in Iran, you should be sending them some of the links I put up about covert ops and coups, the lessons of the American history of “foreign policy”. They deserve the truth, deserve the chance to see what is happening to them, deserve the choice whether to go to jail and be beaten so that a few traitors at the top can get richer and all Iran become poorer.
Naj: We need to promote political science and sociology education in Iran! SERIOUSLY!
You don’t know how much I’ve talked about this with family members in Iran who are university professors. They agree with me! But they aren’t in a position to do much …
I completely sense what you say by the “general mood” I get from friends. If they’ve seen a video or a few pictures, or last Friday, the day of the sermons they grow very concerned. Then, when there hasn’t been any news for the last few days, they seem to forget everything.
99, now that you mention it, I actually DO send a lot of your links to my friends. And I also spend time translating some of them – I’m not a good translator, but I really want them to read the important ones and they are more likely to do so if what I send is in Persian.
There’s no doubt that movements can EASILY be sabotaged. But I think you and I disagree about the roots of this conflict. Anyone who so much as mentions that things could be counter to how you understand them is either a Western agent, or a Western puppet, or out to win a popularity contest.
So clearly this isn’t an argument I’m going to win. All I can do is read and distribute the things you post – and keep my eyes open (even though you think they’re tightly closed!)
99
I agree with you.
But if you hear the stories of some of the people who are arrested, you also realize how farcical this whole thing is.
From my observation they seem to be sensitive about two groups:
1) those who think
2) those who can be used as scare crow: i.e. arrested, beaten, forced to confess, and then served to spread about the message of intimidation
They seem to beat those who are not easily intimidated.
They seem to hate those who think.
They can easily kill those who are real threat (e.g. the armed Baluch). And because the armed Baluch or Kurds ARE NOT part of the urban/Tehrani sphere, no one really cares or hears about it!
But no one other than the government is to be blamed for this. What kind of a SANE leader comes and INVITES the coup-d’etat masterminds by saying nonsensical crap such as:
“Mr Ahmadinejad’s opinion is closer to me. I say election’s fine you shoudl listen. If you come out to protest will kill you but you are responsible for your death. IF the elite disobey me, I will fail them”
What kind of CRAP is that?
It is KHAMENEI who is feeding the unrest! Unless you are suggesting that he belongs to Mojahedin or Toudehi or Monarchists?
I think everyone continues to miss my point.
I don’t want to defend the regime for any of their actions or the crap they say. I happen to think they have been a lot better for Iran than most people do, but that is immaterial. What they do or say in this crisis is also immaterial… for ONE crucial reason.
Iran’s only hope of escaping carnage and very possibly starting WWIII is if they keep this regime and get behind it… for now.
There is every reason to think this whole thing has been started by agents provocateurs and bribed/coerced Iranian elites… precisely to bring about this destabilization… to open the way for Western hegemony to reassert itself. I am SICK of detailed explanations of this, but I have linked all kinds of stuff to show people that this has followed the script for American-backed coups d’état. I keep drilling on that point because once people finally UNDERSTAND that, then they can see they are being played by fiends, and also then the actions to put down these protests stop seeming quite as horrific in light of the stakes.
World War III is a very real possibility if this gets any worse, and short of that, it will just be that the United States and Israel turn Iran into the next Iraq. THE ONLY WAY THERE IS A PRAYER OF AVOIDING THESE CONSEQUENCES IS IF THE CURRENT REGIME IS STRONG, IN CONTROL, AND CAN KEEP THE RUSSIANS AND CHINESE INTERESTED IN DEFENDING IRAN. It is scary shit to get in front of our military adventures, and they aren’t going to do it if the regime in Iran isn’t rock solid. For heaven’s sake, I would be very relieved to find they just put these so-called reformist leaders in jail and threw away the key.
There’s every sign they have made deals and are following our coup script to the letter. Even if they are innocent, which it really doesn’t look as though they are, it STILL would be better than losing protection from Russia and China while Israel has warships with nukes in the Red Sea and the U.S. has them in the Persian Gulf. The only thing that can make them stand down, the murderating fucks, is if Russia and China tell them they’re going to defend Iran.
THAT’S WHY THESE GUYS KEEP ESCALATING EVERY TIME THE PEOPLE ARE PACIFIED. Rafsanjani. Mousavi. Khatami. All three have come back out to stir it back up, and spread more disinformation, and, really, if you’re the regime and have WWIII or the loss of Iran and the Revolution hanging in the balance, you are likely to be pretty harsh to keep people from pushing Iran into that. They’ve actually been a lot gentler than the government here would be with the same stakes. We’d be under Martial Law and protesters would be shot summarily. Survivors would be put in concentration camps.
You guys keep steaming about stuff that is certainly awful, but NOT so awful by half as what might be necessary to prevent massive, massive, massive carnage.
I’m just begging people to heed. All this other stuff is PUNY compared to what’s staring Iran in the face right now.
AND IT ISN’T IRAN’S FAULT! IT IS 100% THE FAULT OF FASCISTS IN ISRAEL AND THE UNITED STATES.
You should be protesting THAT. Who’s paid for all those flags? Who’s taken the MEK off the terrorist organization list? Who’s paying terrorists to blow things up in Iran? Who’s paying assassination teams inside Iran? Who’s paying the agents provocateurs to whip up the street parties, pass out green ribbons, and green spray paint, declare victory before the votes are counted, keep escalating every goddam time the regime does something to ease the tension, or put down the rioting?
IT’S A DAMN SCRIPT THEY’RE FOLLOWING TO THE LETTER!
They did it to Georgia with the Rose Revolution, and Ukraine with the Orange Revolution. They’ve done it a bunch of times all over the world and they’re EXPERTS.
I think I have most of the links under this label… but you can also go back through the stuff I’ve been posting over the last month and find documentaries about what we’ve done in Central and South America, stuff I’ve been posting to give you guys the idea that this is horrifying and murderous stuff you are inviting into Iran every single time you go out there and make it look as though we would be justified in attacking to topple the brutal and nuke-happy dictators! The fascist, blood-sucking plutocrats are just grinning from ear to ear every time you do it.
I’m going to have a goddam stroke!
99, like I said, I read everything you post. And some of the articles regarding what is happening inside Iran (about the Iranian players themselves) remind me So MUCH of what I read in Keyhan or hear on IRIB: it’s the same logic. They take “true facts” and stick them together to create a false argument. Without even BEING there or without understanding how the LINKS between the FACTS they’ve gotten on their wire could be completely different.
Mousavi? Khatami? “All three have come back out to stir it back up, and spread more disinformation”? How do you know that? How are you so sure? That’s what Ahmadinejad is screaming. When did he become the torch bearer for truth? Khatami was saying the other day that they’ve narrowed the definition for “IRI devotee so brutally that I don’t fit in there anymore!”
I too believe that people should keep away from the streets. Street fighting, violence, … it’s not going to help anyone. And can only serve to fuel the neo-con war machine. It will give the monarchists another reason to “show their support” for Iran. But this thing didn’t even HAVE to become such a huge issue. If the leader had agreed to the god-damn independent panel NONE of this would have happened. We have enough reasons and enough “irregularities” … to legitimately ask for a revote … but if he didn’t believe in that … the guardian council DID OPENLY and UNLAWFULLY take sides with Ahmadinejad before the election … and was thus ripped of any legitimacy to look into complaints after the election. And that’s not even anything they have refuted because the GOD DAMN videos and interviews are there still.
Instead of being suspicious of Khatami and Mousavi, I’m more concerned about why the leader and the government dragged this thing out the way they did when they could have calmed it DOWN right from the beginning. EVERYTHING the leader/president combo did and said only ADDED fuel to this fire. And you point the blame to those who are actually BURNING IN IT. If those artciles were a little bit more realistic and fair with their analysis of both sides I may have been swayed towards them … but this infallible, angelic image of the leader/Ahmadinejad camp they depict when this camp clearly had a BIG part in the current mess is just beyond anything I can comprehend.
I am too exhausted and my eyelids are literally in pain but I have to write this short comment. Your reaction is justifiably well deserved. My family lived through a much of horror that this regime can bestow upon someone. A number of family members were imprisoned, tortured, and ultimately executed. Even though my parents were not in politics or any of the affairs that got my other relatives behind bars, due to the careless and selfish acts of a few residing outside of the country and incessantly taunting the regime with letters, my family had to endured years of harassment which almost brought my mother into a brink of nervous break down. These fools assume if they stick that flag of theirs into the faces of demonstrators, they would some how achieve something — that “something” is yet to be understood as what. We’ve had several rallies in my town in the last month and number of these demonstrations were mired with these goons and their ultra-monarchist affliction, effigy burning, and threatening language toward the regime. Nonetheless, we managed to assemble two of the largest “Iranian” protests in the history of our city without anyone getting into specific political predilection of certain agendas, namely either monarchist, Mojahedins, or sophomoric yet ineffectual threats to do harms directed at regime leaders. Don’t get me wrong, I would like nothing more than having these murderers to burn at the stake but I know well that such reactionary deeds would ultimately hurt the ultimate cause than channeling the democratic movement toward a better road map.
ditto to your last sentence!
Fuck this Ahmadinejad is an angel bullshit! It makes no difference if he is an angel or a devil! He is Iran’s best chance to survive right now. I’ve lived for 56 years learning how my country operates, and you won’t take the truth no matter how it’s served.
We go in and bribe the powerful. If we can’t bribe them, we kill them until we can bribe their replacements. Those fuckers came out today to throw a fit about AN’s supposed defiance of the Supreme Leader when each of them in turn has come out in DIRECT DEFIANCE of the Supreme Leader in recent days and weeks. They are trying to overthrow the Revolution. Period. AN may be all kinds of horrible things — I do not know — but for CERTAIN he has protected Iran from getting another Shah and giving all Iran’s wealth back to Western plutocrats. Whatever else he’s done, or not done to your taste or satisfaction, he’s obviously Iran’s best chance. I’ve been studying my ass off for three years now on this stuff, BECAUSE I DON’T WANT IRAN HURT, and you just keep up stoking this genocidal protest.
Someone in Iran comes on and agrees with me, and you say “ditto on your last sentence!” Are you just being contrary? Is that appropriate when nukes and depleted uranium are headed for your home?
Oh. My. God.
Why on earth would I pitch such a fit about this if liking AN or not liking him were the first part of the problem?
Does your family have to be incinerated before you take the clue?
Shit! IT DOESN’T MATTER HOW AWFUL IT IS FOR THE PROTESTERS RIGHT NOW! IT’S ABOUT TO GET A THOUSAND TIMES WORSE BECAUSE OF THEM! Beg them to cool it. They can get back for it if they manage to fend off an invasion, or live through it! Right now Iran has to be unified.
Jump out of your tough little shells and look.
99, that Aria, whoever s/he is said: “I know well that such reactionary deeds would ultimately hurt the ultimate cause than channeling the democratic movement toward a better road map.”
And I said: “ditto on your last sentence” … I meant I agree! I didn’t put it correctly, it was 2 a.m. and I don’t get more than 4 hours of comfortable sleep nowadays, so I wasn’t coherent, but what’s wrong with that?! He’s saying what I believe: violence ISN’T going to get us anywhere. We need to calm down and go home.
And unlike him, I DON’T want to see anyone burn at the stake, EVEN if that were BETTER for some wild, uncanny reason.
Oh, lack of sleep, bummer. Definitely addles the brain. I am an expert on that! Even when you’re young it messes with your head and heart something fierce… and tends to make you fifty times more emotional about everything… which, of course, is no help in dire situations.
That last sentence was about not letting anger with the regime for its terrible stuff defeat the ultimate goal of the revolution, unless I’m badly misreading it… which is MY point. That all this protest and upheaval and internet agonizing over the horrible regime is ACTUALLY putting Iran itself at grave risk. It all flows to strengthen the aggressors and weaken Iran.
It’s weakening IRAN whether or not it’s weakening the regime.
The threat is worse now than it has been since this kicked up a few years ago, and the point is that these grievances have to be stifled until the crisis is passed or it means carnage on a massive scale.
I’m not yelling and ripping my hair out just to be contrary.
I personally don’t give a shit about the Islamic Republic Arabic [deleted] flag with 2 bum chicks and a willy in the middle. As far as I am concerned my country’s flag is the one with Shiro Khorshid in the centre of it. I don’t belong to any group or commities either. so don’t start sticking labels on people just because they accept or don’t accept something.
A bunch of Arab [deleted] called Islamic Republic are destroying my country and killing, beating and maiming my brothers and sisters all over Iran. IT HAS TO STOP. 30 YEARS IS ENOUGH. Do you all understand? so..DEATH TO [DELETED]
[Note from moderator: I do not publish "Death to" comments. Learn to spell hypocrisy.]
Shadmehr, maybe you’ve been watching American Idol too long to be able to READ fully. This post wasn’t about labels. It was about the fucking perfidy of those who hold the lion and sun flag when it can HURT the very cause they claim to be supporting.
I also agree that expats living outside of Iran should watch how they act. They are only harming the ones living inside Iran, while they themselves are living in the comfort of security outside.
Also lets not forget how many died under the Shah, until he got toppled. People forget that the Shah wasnt no Gandhi either. Oh and by the way, Iran NEVER had true democracy, so stop saying that we are being brutalized during the past 30 years, when its been going on forever.
Evolution not (another) Revolution!
My dear young friend, Shadmehr khaan,
While our other friends, Pedestrian, Ramin, and the others keep their civilized thoughts focused on the Iranian people’s problems inside Iran, and the dangers threatening them, partly as a result of what we do her outside of Iran, still their words don’t come through. You don’t realize that every time you wag that flag with the Lion & Sun sign, a number of young people (at or around your own age) get shot in Iran. I hope you are intelligent enough to understand that. As much as I am proud of my young friends, such as Pedestrian, Ramin, nazar, iraniam, Sophie, and others, I am disappointed in your not paying attention to what they are saying. Do you prefer to hijack some innocent people’s protest in favor of an illusion and as a result have some Iranian people killed? Is that what you want? It is noteworthy (especially FYI) that the Lion & Sun emblem is not really a pre-Islamic emblem; it was created during the Safavid period, whose court, by the way, ran a religious oriented system. However, no one is asking you to refute your personal political inclinations; just put them aside momentarily and first help the people inside of Iran and prevent their murder. Later (and always) you have every right to maintain your beliefs.
And also this business of foul-mouthing our Arab brothers and sisters, on the grounds that some opportunists are using the religion for their own purposes, is another uncivilized behavior and has to stop immediately. When you foul-mouth Arabs (and thusly generalize), you are in the meantime insulting Omar Mokhtar, Jamila Bupasha, Khalil Gibran, and many other Arab individuals, who are not much less than Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa, and many others in their convictions, beliefs and, particularly, their humanity. We Iranians have to stop insulting (and blaming) others for the mistakes we have been making throughout the history of our Beloved Homeland. In the past thirty years, and since our migrations started, we have been constantly damaging the American culture on a regular basis. How would you like an American stating that these (what ever the curse word) Iranians have come here and destroyed my culture (regardless of the contributions to the American culture on the Iranians’ part)? It is not civilized to generalize and then foul-mouth others.
Finally, in his speech, your prince (Mr. Reza khaan-e Pahlavi, that is) cries crocodile tears (as the Persian saying goes) for Neda, while the wealth on which his family has been living for the past thirty years outside of Iran (and inside of Iran, before that) is the blood of thousands of Neda’s. If he really cares about the people of Iran, why isn’t he in Tehran right now, marching in the front row of the protesters? It is easy to live in an aristocratic luxury here in the US and sent the young people in Tehran out to face the bullets.
Those criminal mercenaries that are torturing Iranian people do not need any excuse to torture the freedom lovers in Iran. Before Iranians in abroad starting to demonstrate around the world, those criminals, way ahead of time were accusing that this “green movement” was another Purple revolution organized by US and British. So my friend, those criminals do not need any excuse to torture the young brave Iranians, and please remember that, the main reason those people in Iran are putting their lives in danger, is for DEMOCRACY, now that some people in this side of the world are enjoying and exercising this “democracy” we should not be intimidated by those criminals and not practice our rights!!!
Iran’s national flag is Green, white and red with the lion and sord in the middle, it has nothing to do with the Mujahedin or Monarchies, it happens that those people (Mujahedin and Monarchies) are Iranians too, no matter what their ideology and goals are and if we like them or not. Those “expats who have MISused the recent events in Iran”, (I call them shameless opportunists) will always be around “to put forth their own agendas”. Opportunist people will always be around and will try to sabotage or take the credits for the demonstrations which are happening around the world for supporting Iranian movement in Iran, nothing shall stop us to express our rights and thoughts or to make us to give in to those criminals.
You know, they are a lots of non Iranians around the world who are condemning the brutal and criminal acts of Islamic republic of Iran, among them are Americans and Britishs, so may be in your next e-mail you want to ask those non Iranians to be quiet so that torturers in Iran shall not use their picture for an excuse to torture those young Iranians.
Where do you want to draw the line?
Let’s put a side self censorship and we all be united for freedom in Iran… you guys like it or not this is a real war, and we have to fight the ones who stool are country and election harder and stronger. Such a discussion(s) is manmade agenda with Islamic regime’s propaganda behind it. Kingdom will never ever come back to Iran and all the political movement from the era of 1979 are almost death, so please do not fall for regime’s propagenda.
They are master of blaming others for their own stupidity; let’s not follow them, and let’s not fall for their trap since we are smart, aren’t we?
One question; are we going to fight united for the freedom of Iran or we are going to fight over the sign on the flag?
Until the day we become united we will have to keep up with this regime, you pick your poison.
reposting:
Let’s put a side self censorship and we all be united for freedom in Iran… you guys like it or not this is a real war, and we have to fight the ones who took away our country and election harder and stronger. Such a discussion(s) is manmade agenda with Islamic regime’s propaganda behind it. Kingdom will never ever come back to Iran and all the political movement from the era of 1979 are almost death, so please do not fall for regime’s propagenda.
They are master of blaming others for their own stupidity; let’s not follow them, and let’s not fall for their trap since we are smart, aren’t we?
One question; are we going to fight united for the freedom of Iran or we are going to fight over the sign on the flag?
Until the day we become united we will have to keep up with this regime, you pick your poison.
and one last thing; does it really hurts to stick with the plain green flag for now?
@99 Ahmadinejad’s survival is in promoting war in the region. If there is any possible cause for WWIII it will be the extremism of Haqani group in Iran not the agenda of reformists. You don’t seem to have set foot in any of demonstrations in Iran otherwise you would see how meaningless your arguments are. You also don’t seem to know what catastrophe Iran is leading to under the military dictatorship that has almost monopolised the economy and leads people to an incredible level of poverty. I don’t have to say anything about the changes they have made in the education system. He promotes peace in the region as much as Bush promoted peace in the world. You actually miss the point that both CNN and BBD announced the result of election highly in favor of Ahmadinejad for couple of days before they had to withdraw from their hasty position. They both prefer Ahmadinejad to anything else at the moment, firstly because unlike Khatami’s time he will be someone with relative authority they can talk to. I cannot see any similarity betweenthis situation and the one in Ukrain. It is completely short of logical argument to try to extend one argument to another by just saying look they are using a color and US is supporting them. You are missing hundreds of other points. The people opposing are about 70-80 percent of this government and system. Many of them are more anti-american than Ahmadinejad is.
99 [moderator: deleted] you!
science, no, it doesn’t hurt! Let’s all put down our flags – our (other) fights when there are more critical things at hand here. The monarchists and commies are the ONLY ones who still INSIST on bringing their flags … It’s a SHAME too when people are willing to forego the OFFICIAL flag just to shut them up and they still INSIST on spreading their poison.
And if you have an argument against 99, bring it on! What’s up with the swearing?! Is that how you’re going to win the other arguments?!
no i know better than swearing to help people to get to know the truth, he ain’t worth more than swearing!
Well, you’re call … But if that’s how you’re going to help “united for freedom in Iran” (to use your own words) … then we are in big trouble! Luckily, I think there are people out there still capable of reasonable argument!
people who have been living out side of Iran see current flag as something that represent the current regime and they are against current regime therefore the alternative; Pahlavi’s flag, which is not so cool. However I still can respect why they go for alternative as long as they do not want to push for something that died 30 years ago. It is dead it is not going to come back, stop making big thing out of it.
My personal opinion on Pahlavi’s flag; it is stupid to some extend for itself since lion is holding an Islamic sword which is stupid and the sword is not Iranian. He should have had a true persian sword in his hand or “drafshe kaviani” or a scale for justice. But it is better than bloody ugly allah in the middle.
At the same time i respect and agree with the argument of why current flag is the flag.
What i would say is that let be “UNITED”, leave alone self censorship that we all been brian washed to do by ourselves, and lets fight for our Iran to be free.
Pedestrain,
i used the f… word and it is used in the article in this page. were you against that too?
taken from the bottom of the above article:
“I AM SICK OF IT!
GO TO FUCKING HELL!”
what is that supposed to mean?
My sisters and brothers, it is time to fight tyranny, are you all up for it?
@ Pedestrian: It is not all the commies who insist on imposing their agenda on every movement. In New York Hunger strike, a big portion of participants were former left wing activists who instead of repeating: “We told you all these things 30 years ago” had preferred to leave their personal grudge behind and help. It was actually amazing how people who would only be accusing each other 10 years ago were united. I believe Ahmadinejad and Khamenei, unwillingly, did something miraculous. They united all their enemies. I never thought I would see a day some of these groups get together and talk in piece. That by itself is an amazing achievement. I hope this great atmosphere of dialogue will not be ruined by the shadow of violence and a possible race in the future for getting a hold of power.
science, you can say any word all you want, but you are targeting someone SPECIFIC in this forum who put forth her own account of this argument.
I don’t agree with her account one bit, but I don’t want this comment section to turn into a swearing match between the commentators themselves. Please just keep it civil and argue your point. That’s the only way we can win anything.
In retrospect, I wouldn’t have used those words in my piece either because it only ignites anger when it should fuel debate.
At the time, I had just spoken to this friend I wrote of, and I remembered the monarchists who just REFUSE to bring down their flags when we beg them to, when we put down OUR OWN flags so they’ll do the same … and thus the harsh words.
Reza, I agree with you … halfheartedly. From what I see, some who have been way from Iran for years and years simply REFUSE to see things any other way. Even when people beg, plead, compromise.
Pedestrain,
i think your mistake is that in the free world you do not have to “beg, plead, compromise” but you have to respect others and let the people decide. and if it goes against the ones you do not like you still can not ban them from expressing their idea’s. It is a called freedom. Well, unless you live in Iran, of course.
Stop the self-censorship please.
No one is banning anyone. I’m just calling their own bluff: they can’t claim to support the people IN Iran if what they’re doing HURTS those people even more!
They are FREE to do whatever they wish!
@science: These events were organized by a group of people who spent a lot of time and energy on them. The goal was to support those in Iran who are in prison or are in the streets. Anyone could join that cause as long as they respected the cause. You cannot go to a music concert and sing your own song loudly. If they wanted to steal the show for themselves they cannot be called anything but thieves. If they have something useful to say they can organize their own event with its own agenda and there they can say what they want to say. But with a crowd of 20 I guess everyone will ignore them so they need to get the attention by breaking into everyone else’s effort and trying to hijack that in their own favor. People in the street of Iran don’t want a monarchy. They also don’t want a communist party governing them. They want to give the power that can be held accountable. So changing Khamenei with a king or a governing communist party doesn’t seem to be a change to me and doesn’t seem to support people’s cause. A lot of people talked in a civilized way against each other but they respected each other. You cannot go to an organized event while you are calling the organizers spies of IRI.
Unity, Reza, is the answer. I do not think I wrote in a favour of pro-kingdom or any other movement, I even said, “Kingdom will never ever come back to Iran and all the political movement from the era of 1979 are almost death, so please do not fall for regime’s propagenda.”
so did you read my post? but I hope you realize that Iran is not only yours. I also think “30Solmaz” is very correct.
Promote “unity” inbetween everyone, do not fall for blood thirsty regime’s propaganda, and stop self-censorship, it is a free world, political rally is different from the concert do not even try to compare them.
pedestrian, blood thirsty regime is hurting people. they will kill people no matter what… stop falling for their trap…
@ science. You go to a rally and a group of people come to that rally insulting the organizers, then organizers ask them out. Who is hurting the unity? What do you mean by regime’s propagenda? I was there and I saw them. They don’t want to be united with others. In a rally it is important to remain organized. They get into the rallies and counter every slogan with one of theirs. They call everyone, from Ganji to Shirin Ebadi spies of the Iranian government. How can you remain united with them if they desire so much to separate themselves from the rest of the world?
@ pedestrian: I am not in favor of your argument in the article. That is the argument used by the regime’s softer parts at different stages. They told women it is not a big deal to have Hijab for a while don’t make that an issue. Just go along with it we have bigger problems. At the time of war they told everyone to shut up because there was a bigger external threat. You cannot ask people not to express themselves because it can be used against the ones in Iran. Obama took a totally different approach from Bush and yet, IRIB just changed his words and showed him as an aggressor. IRI is a bigger lier than that. They don’t need any excuses. They make some out of nothing.
No need to say, I believe what a minority of groups are doing is against the unity as I stated above and I harshly criticize them. To me that includes groups and people who have either been outside Iran for a long time or have so much of personal grudge that they cannot put aside for the whole movement.
@Pedestrain: This is how they lie and reflect the events: http://www.irannegah.com/Video.aspx?id=1287
It is hilarious in a sad way.
@science: watch this clip from the recent events in NYC:
http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=105623399805&h=BLraY&u=Uxv_H&ref=mf
It is Ganji’s response to those who were standing outside the hunger strike event and were holding their own flags. They were booing him and calling him agent of IRI. You watch this and let me know of your judgement. I would argue about any specific detail of this.
Reza, I have seen this video, I am behind Mr. Ganji’s…
OK good science. Then you may be able to tell me how it is possible to unify with people who write and talk like this:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=102478702001
Give me a practical way. They come to your demonstration and they start accusing likes of Ganji to be spies of IRI. What do you do with them. You let them in, they only insult you. They come to demonstrations, they shout against whatever slogans you are shouting. They are just there to break the crowd and show they know it all. What do you do with them?
Reza,
did you read my posting(s) or you are just having a allergic reaction to what I wrote, what i said or I am saying and I am standing for is; freedom for everyone, i know who they are and they are the same as Islamic regime otherwise we would have been doing better now, much better, rather than sitting and writing these b.s. on the internet. may be we were working on next great science project in Iran as Iranian scienitist or may be ….. more and more…. what I am saying is lets see if we can educate them? lets find a way for it….. sending the man to moon was not an easy job either but people found the find for it, instead of saying how you are going to do to that.
i hope one day without politics being involve people can vote for and choose the flag for our great Iran.
may be it is my poor english? i give up!
agha, good luck and “movafagh bashid”.
This movement belongs to all Iranians; wherever in the globe they may be; whatever flag they want to wave. To me, democracy means that all people are free to express themselves without fear of judgment and then ultimately the majority wins. No-one can ’steal’ your movement if the majority is with you. Yet, if you silence and shut up expression, then let’s forget democracy…we’ll go from a monarchist dictatorship to a theocratic dictatorship to some other type of dictatorship where whoever tries to express will be silenced! Is that what we want? Let’s not be afraid of diverse thoughts and opinions. Ultimately, the majority will win if there is a true democracy. “Har cheh mikhahed delleh tangat begoo!”
Let every voice count, thanks, thanks, i am with you…
bloody Islamic Republic has done a great job brain washing and defining everything as they want/wish and then sell the crap…. and now we have to keep up with this shit yet we can not solve our simple problems in iran such as making a refinary so we do not have to import gas!, keep up with our planes falling out of the sky, ……… more and more….
and yet people freak out about lions and sun on the flag. it is just shame.
And yet people can’t bring down their own cooped up prejudice so as to show support for those in Iran who are truly hurting. It is a crying shame.
People in Iran are not hurting! they are fighting like heros, they are storng and powerful, they can stand up for themselves, they get more credit than anyone can give them, they truly earned it this time, don’t not worry about them much, they can fight they own battle.
Yes science, they are brave heroes! So we should hurt them any chance we get, that’s your logic?
did you read my posting(s)? it seems like you do not understand what i write or i am not writing right, right!
and did you watch the video by Ganji (posting number 50 from Reza) i think he is right on the bulls eye. In his speech he says we have to learn to respect others and he talks about freedom for all. Also did you read posting number 30 by Solmaz?
i just say ??????????????????????????
استقلال آزادی، جمهوری ایرانی
Will you quit worrying about monarchists & commies ; just bring your green ribbons, and if the KKK comes to your rallies,they can’t discredit you,or steal your purposes. You should easily mock the slander that the reformists are Reds,and CIA dupes.
I’m anti-theocracy, but I accept that the only peaceful path of democratic growth in Iran is within the IRI. I’ve been reading your clerics…. they are the sharp point of the spear that Iranians can get behind, and push this theomafia toward the dustbin of history.
Yes, and now the hardliner’s monitors of your site will know that you’ve been in contact with your Texas Neo-Con masters.
Don’t worry about it.
I’m just an unloved stranger here, but may I ask ? Is Mr. “99″ an enemy agent, or just some misguided Iranian archtype that I’m not familiar with ? Are the Russians,& Chinese what’s protecting Iran from the coming US/Zionist onslaught ? Then if Iran could just get French support, they’d be as safe as Saddam Hussain.Oh-Oh.!
Mr. Bush, if you read the post, it’s not that the KKK can discredit who – it’s that signs like these have DIRECTLY HURT Iranians in Iran who these thus claim to be supporting.
Agent 99 is not an Iranian, and whatever her beliefs, they do not include the need to mutilate babies and children like that of Bush and Co. I do not agree with all her views. But she’s certainly got a point their: throughout our modern history, the way we’ve played both sides (US/Israel vs. Russia/China) has kept us from a lot of harm! And that’s why this moron Ahmadinejad must go. He doesn’t know how to play the game. Just how to fuck it all up.
Dear Pedestrian,
If I can pull the thread back from my ” need to mutilate babies “, in six years Iraq has moved from Saddam’s dictatorship to REAL elections vs. IRI selections, and a REAL republic vs. the IRI’s fake High School Government, where the kids can chatter, but the adults make the rules, and also smoke cigarettes in the boy’s room any damn time they want to. Iraq’s Arabs,and Kurds have advanced their democracy past anything the Persians have produced …let’s hope you can catch up. We are proud to have helped them.
If you want to salt my wounds, look to 1991 and Papa Bush’s policy of “Hope” (as in, we hope Saddam is overthrown.) The humiliation of standing still while Saddam crushed his people before our eyes is still with me.
Yes, that’s why you’re best buds with Mr. Netanyanhu, Mr. Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, Mr. Abdullah of Jordan … You’re very proud of their “s-elections” and respect of “human rights” ?
Dear Pedestrian,
Don’t forget Egypt ! The whole region’s full of thuggish autocrats. Just keep working, Mr. Pedestrian. The autocrats see your green ribbons in their nightmares, and their activists see them in their dreams.
Pedestrain,
if you can please delete all my comments from this page. i disagree with you and it seems like you do not pay attention to what people write.
thanks and good luck.
including number 66 and this one.
Science, unless you have an urgent request (example, a security concern, a threat on your life, etc) don’t ask me to delete comments.
I can’t spend my time going back and deleting things you’ve posted when I don’t even do that for my own comments – even though I may later disagree with what I’ve written myself.
And I posted the last one so people know that you don’t want your comments up here.